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i feel you are approaching this from a too human-centric point of view. who is to say animals care about what you want to communicate about? and who is to say t
by nikofeyn 9y ago
i feel you are approaching this from a too human-centric point of view. who is to say animals care about what you want to communicate about? and who is to say that we don't fail to be able to understand what they wish to communicate about with us?
> But, and it is a crucial but, there is a really narrow band of communication they seem willing to engage with me in, which appears focussed on very direct basic drives of food and reward. they aren't really into higher abstract reasoning that centers on communication. Maybe they have a rich interior dialogue of abstract thought?
you should have a look at orcas and their high levels of communication. not only do they have dialects and culture, such as learning and teaching new hunting techniques, they have detailed communication methods. for example, they have a special hunting technique in which during a hunt not going well, they start vocalizing again and leave the area. this signals to their prey that they have given up and are on their way out. meanwhile, they have selected a single orca to stay behind and remain silent and still. once the prey relaxes, it's killed by the silent orca who then signals to the others. there is another case where orcas visit a specific low water area to massage themselves with smooth pebbles special to that area. there are many examples of orca communicating with humans, e.g. luna the whale and the australian orcas who used to cooperate with whalers. and their are other cases of specifying individuals and communicating timing.
orcas will often seek humans out in the wild, being curious about what's happening. i can certainly imagine it being frustrating to them that we aren't able to communicate with them other than slapping the water and making primitive sounds when we're not capturing them. in captivity, they showcase complex emotional responses to their situation, including mental illness and even suicide. there is a sense of longing to those in captivity since orcas are amongst the most social and familial animals, probably even moreso than humans.
the key limiting factor for orcas is their environment, which prevents advanced use of tools and mediums of communication.
> I think they don't actually want to display intelligence to me. I think. I probably believe they can't but I really doubt they even want to. Maybe they're smarter than they look?
i think this is likely the case for some animals, including the above mentioned orcas. we don't really understand their intelligence, so i don't feel its right to assume it's a lesser one. in all cases of studies of orcas, they surprise people with their intelligence and communication. us humans really have no idea how to understand or study intelligence and communication though, so we shouldn't make judgements based off this inability.