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When I hear people talking about how things are "mysterious" I assume that the actual answers are not difficult, but what they imply conflicts with what we want

When I hear people talking about how things are "mysterious" I assume that the actual answers are not difficult, but what they imply conflicts with what we want to believe to be true. In this instance, we want to think that we are separate from animals and that they are stupid objects. It helps us get through our days without too much guilt and remorse regarding how they are treated in our society. But the facts seem to be simple and clear: animals are highly intelligent and closely related to us. They are our brothers and sisters. I am not saying, "go vegan". I think our priority should first be improving how we treat other humans. There is a lot of opportunity for improvement there before we direct our energies to other animals.

pessimizer 9y ago
> When I hear people talking about how things are "mysterious" I assume that the actual answers are not difficult, but what they imply conflicts with what we want to believe to be true. So true. When someone says that there are no answers, there's usually an obvious answer which makes the speaker's continuing lifestyle untenable or their professed values hypocritical. Closely related to "no one could see it coming" when people saw it coming.
dmreedy 9y ago
That can depend heavily on the context. There are things that are things for which 'mysterious' is basically a mathematical description: chaos, for example. Anything more complex than a few variables with simple relationships rapidly spins out in to the hyperspace of 'unpredictable and non-repeating'. So, while I agree that there's a reoccurring pattern in human operation that will resolve cognitive dissonance in a self-serving kind of way, I'm not sure we can resolve this issue in particular so easily, without some very high-level assumptions. As far as I'm concerned, the question of "what is intelligence" is up there with the deepest mysteries out there.
323454 9y ago
But there are important differences between humans and animals. Since we are talking about populations of organisms (e.g. all pigs and all humans) the boundaries can look rough and fuzzy, but not so fuzzy that you can claim there is a continuous spectrum of organisms from any given animal species to humans. You can't just raise or teach a particularly gifted chimpanzee to be a human because there are vast biological differences, one of which is our unmatched talent for putting ideas into each other's heads. Therefore, despite the many similarities between humans and various animal species, it's fair to say that we are separate from animals. This doesn't mean it's okay to treat animals badly, and there are still good and moral justifications for veg*ism even if you accept that humans and animals are separate, but I think it's important to resist the temptation to ascribe human qualities to animals. We really are separate.
esailija 9y ago
When you eat, choose a plant based option instead of meat option. How did that affect at all your "work" towards improving your treatment of other humans?

pessimizer 9y ago

> When I hear people talking about how things are "mysterious" I assume that the actual answers are not difficult, but what they imply conflicts with what we want to believe to be true. So true. When someone says that there are no answers, there's usually an obvious answer which makes the speaker's continuing lifestyle untenable or their professed values hypocritical. Closely related to "no one could see it coming" when people saw it coming.

dmreedy 9y ago

That can depend heavily on the context. There are things that are things for which 'mysterious' is basically a mathematical description: chaos, for example. Anything more complex than a few variables with simple relationships rapidly spins out in to the hyperspace of 'unpredictable and non-repeating'. So, while I agree that there's a reoccurring pattern in human operation that will resolve cognitive dissonance in a self-serving kind of way, I'm not sure we can resolve this issue in particular so easily, without some very high-level assumptions. As far as I'm concerned, the question of "what is intelligence" is up there with the deepest mysteries out there.

323454 9y ago

But there are important differences between humans and animals. Since we are talking about populations of organisms (e.g. all pigs and all humans) the boundaries can look rough and fuzzy, but not so fuzzy that you can claim there is a continuous spectrum of organisms from any given animal species to humans. You can't just raise or teach a particularly gifted chimpanzee to be a human because there are vast biological differences, one of which is our unmatched talent for putting ideas into each other's heads. Therefore, despite the many similarities between humans and various animal species, it's fair to say that we are separate from animals. This doesn't mean it's okay to treat animals badly, and there are still good and moral justifications for veg*ism even if you accept that humans and animals are separate, but I think it's important to resist the temptation to ascribe human qualities to animals. We really are separate.

esailija 9y ago

When you eat, choose a plant based option instead of meat option. How did that affect at all your "work" towards improving your treatment of other humans?