6 ms·

New Kindle Leaves Rivals Farther Behind

57 points by Setsuna 16y ago

minouye 16y ago
Also of note, Kindle's will be available at all Staples locations this fall. There goes the Nook advantage of being able to try before you buy. http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/31/staples-kindle/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/31/staples-kindle/
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
listic 16y ago
What is the physical keyboard good for? I understand the need for keyboard on smartphones where you might want to browse, type text, ssh or whatever... But what's its purpose on a reader? UPDATE: Thanks for quick response. I really haven't thought of this, these uses make the device better than I thought. I really wish Amazon will start selling these devices here in Russia (and in 100+ other countries as well) so I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Meanwhile, the local market is owned by Chinese knock-offs sold for $300, while Amazon, Barnes&Noble and Sony don't seem to be interested.
- kalid 16y ago
  I use it to write quick notes/thoughts inside the book as I'm reading -- new ideas, questions I have, follow-ups, etc (amazon stores the location of the note). It's much slower than pencil, but the benefit is that it's synced to the cloud, and you can actually find your notes afterwards (how often do you go through the margins of old books?).
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  You can buy books directly on the kindle, at the very least it makes it easier to search for books by author or title.
- weaksauce 16y ago
  searching & annotating are the two main usecases I can think of.
DougBTX 16y ago
The Kindle 3 is ingeniously designed to be everything the iPad will never be: small, light and inexpensive. I'd hold my breath on that one, at least until Thursday. Having said that, my Kindle is ordered and on it's way.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Based off pictures, it's a good deal smaller and by conjecture lighter than the Kindle 2, which is really quite small and light already. So much so I'm having a hard time saying "no" to one.
georgecmu 16y ago
The article doesn't mention that every book available for Kindle is also available on the iPad with the Amazon's Kindle App.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Yes it does.
cullenking 16y ago
I really want to like ebooks, I really do, however I can't stand the thought of purchasing a device that assumes I am a thief. It's the digital equivalent of employees standing at the door of a store, checking bags and receipts. Except worse. The fact that I can't share books is terrible, I wouldn't be able to read books in open formats even more so. The kindle is definitely the nicest reader, however it seems to Sony reader is the most open.
- tptacek 16y ago
  I can at least understand the convenience objections to DRM. "You bought it, so you should be able to put it on any device you want." I don't agree, but I understand it. But this moral objection to DRM I don't get. News flash: actuarially speaking, "you" are almost certainly a thief. It's not like Amazon's suppliers are crazy for thinking their property might get stolen.
  - cullenking 16y ago
    There isn't any actual property to steal. That's the thing, steal is the wrong word to use, so is thief. I don't think there are words that exist in the english language to encompass the moral implications of downloading media without paying the creator and the producer of that media. I do firmly believe the negative moral implications of content producers taking so much off the top of content creators take of the transaction to be much worse than the implications of someone downloading a file without paying. This argument is all about perspective (lots of different right answers). Mine is just one that tends to support the creator not the producer, by attending live shows and book signings. Live appearances are where creators make the money. Maybe all the content creators need a payment system/network for their web sites that allows guilty parties to pay money directly to them so they don't have to feel bad about downloading their content from sources other than the producers.
    - tzs 16y ago
      How about "polluters" instead of "thief"? I need to change the oil on my lawn mower. I could spend the 45 minutes it would take to get to an approved oil disposal facility--or I could just dump it in the strip of weeds next to my fence. The latter will cause no measurable harm. Hell, it might even kill some of the weeds that I don't like there, but because of the way the ground slopes down as it approaches the fence I can't reasonably mow. Even if some of my oil makes it the 50 feet or so down to the ditch that carries rainwater runoff to (eventually) Puget Sound, it will be so dilute by then there will be no measurable harm. So, is it OK for me to just dump my oil? No, because even though my dumping would cause no measurable harm, if everyone dumped it would cause great harm to public resources, such as Puget Sound. The situation is similar with intellectual property. We've set up a public resource--the IP law framework--which gives intellectual goods certain legal attributes designed to make them behave similar to real property, so as to allow for the use of the same economic systems that we use for dealing with physical goods to be applied to intangible goods. When an individual ignores that framework, he's behaving just like someone dumping oil on their weed patch. They cause no measurable harm, but if a lot of people did it, it would destroy a public resource.
tptacek 16y ago
Sadly, lots of them are now $13, up from the flat $10 that Amazon used to charge for all best sellers. Those prices seem high. The fact that e-books involve no printing, binding, shipping, distributing or taking back and shredding unsold copies ought to save you something. And it’s outrageous that you can’t sell or even give away an e-book when you’re finished with it. You paid for it; why shouldn’t you be allowed to pass it on? (End of rant.) Argh. This isn't how pricing works. If it was, Photoshop would cost 40 cents. $13... for a book! Egads!
- Supermighty 16y ago
  It will be this way until some upstart disrupts the industry taking a smaller cut for routing authors directly to customers side stepping the old publishing houses.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    I'll be happy to hear that authors are getting (say) 80% of the $15 that books end up costing, but that doesn't change the fact that book pricing has nothing whatsoever to do with materials and binding and whatnot.
    - Supermighty 16y ago
      I would love to hear that too. The sad fact is that author's are getting even less for ebooks while the publisher is getting more. http://www.daemonsbooks.com/2010/08/09/ebook-vs-regular-book-pricing/ http://www.daemonsbooks.com/2010/08/09/ebook-vs-regular-book...
      - tptacek 16y ago
        I'm on board with this, but that doesn't change anything about book pricing; this is an orthogonal concern.
  - dpapathanasiou 16y ago
    We're working on it: http://fifobooks.com/authors.html http://fifobooks.com/authors.html
turnersauce 16y ago
I don't find the Nook's touch screen to be "balky" at all, at least in comparison to any touchscreen phone. In fact, I think that the use of a touchscreen instead of a hardware keyboard opens the door for a lot more design flexibility.
moultano 16y ago
The music industry lost 10 years believing that DRM works and it may never recover. Now the publishing industry is looking to do the same . . . Software is the only medium in which DRM has any hope of succeeding long-term, and that's only because it typically needs to be managed as a service. Video can tolerate it for now because the file sizes are too large to conveniently separate from the physical media, but that won't be true for long.
- tailrecursion 16y ago
  Game consoles have been successful so far with closed systems, and they've learned over the years how to improve their security, a key one being forced firmware updates.
  - moultano 16y ago
    That's a very particular case because no one has the expectation of being able to play a game for one system on another, and there are legitimate technical reasons for that being hard to do.
- MC27 16y ago
  Sadly, I think book DRM could be successful. Amazon is trying to create a de facto platform - rather than just a device - and so long as they port it to as many devices as they can, it will do well. Many are avoiding Apple's book service for this reason.
- ja27 16y ago
  For most people, DRM doesn't bother them at all until stuff stops working. So far, DVDs pretty much play in every DVD player. (If less PC makers would ship Windows without third party DVD software, more people would care.) Music was closest to having real DRM problems, but almost every non-hacker I know is perfectly fine with Apple's DRM because they only listen to music in iTunes or on an iPod. If other devices ever really became popular, non-DRM music might finally become essential to the average person. So as long as the average person only uses the Kindle (or Nook or Sony) and never tries to port their DRMed ebooks to a new, incompatible device, they won't feel the pain of DRM. But first we need average people to start using ereaders for a while, which I think is close to happening.
motters 16y ago
I am a fan of books, but I'll only get an ebook reader if: a) I can be confident that books purchased will still be readable in ten years. b) That I can still do all of the usual things I do with books, like lending and moving them from one platform (shelf) to another. c) That at no time there is even the possibility of books being remotely deleted from my device without my permission. d) That ebooks I purchased are owned by me, not rented or temporarily borrowed.
richchan 16y ago
Has any one heard anything about the Kindle Development Kit? Looks like they are still in private beta. I wonder if there will be Kindle apps (and app store??) coming any time soon.

57 points by Setsuna 16y ago

Also of note, Kindle's will be available at all Staples locations this fall. There goes the Nook advantage of being able to try before you buy. http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/31/staples-kindle/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/31/staples-kindle/

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

listic 16y ago

What is the physical keyboard good for? I understand the need for keyboard on smartphones where you might want to browse, type text, ssh or whatever... But what's its purpose on a reader? UPDATE: Thanks for quick response. I really haven't thought of this, these uses make the device better than I thought. I really wish Amazon will start selling these devices here in Russia (and in 100+ other countries as well) so I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Meanwhile, the local market is owned by Chinese knock-offs sold for $300, while Amazon, Barnes&Noble and Sony don't seem to be interested.

kalid 16y ago
I use it to write quick notes/thoughts inside the book as I'm reading -- new ideas, questions I have, follow-ups, etc (amazon stores the location of the note). It's much slower than pencil, but the benefit is that it's synced to the cloud, and you can actually find your notes afterwards (how often do you go through the margins of old books?).
InclinedPlane 16y ago
You can buy books directly on the kindle, at the very least it makes it easier to search for books by author or title.
weaksauce 16y ago
searching & annotating are the two main usecases I can think of.

DougBTX 16y ago

The Kindle 3 is ingeniously designed to be everything the iPad will never be: small, light and inexpensive. I'd hold my breath on that one, at least until Thursday. Having said that, my Kindle is ordered and on it's way.

sliverstorm 16y ago
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Based off pictures, it's a good deal smaller and by conjecture lighter than the Kindle 2, which is really quite small and light already. So much so I'm having a hard time saying "no" to one.

georgecmu 16y ago

The article doesn't mention that every book available for Kindle is also available on the iPad with the Amazon's Kindle App.

tptacek 16y ago
Yes it does.

cullenking 16y ago

I really want to like ebooks, I really do, however I can't stand the thought of purchasing a device that assumes I am a thief. It's the digital equivalent of employees standing at the door of a store, checking bags and receipts. Except worse. The fact that I can't share books is terrible, I wouldn't be able to read books in open formats even more so. The kindle is definitely the nicest reader, however it seems to Sony reader is the most open.

tptacek 16y ago
I can at least understand the convenience objections to DRM. "You bought it, so you should be able to put it on any device you want." I don't agree, but I understand it. But this moral objection to DRM I don't get. News flash: actuarially speaking, "you" are almost certainly a thief. It's not like Amazon's suppliers are crazy for thinking their property might get stolen.
- cullenking 16y ago
  There isn't any actual property to steal. That's the thing, steal is the wrong word to use, so is thief. I don't think there are words that exist in the english language to encompass the moral implications of downloading media without paying the creator and the producer of that media. I do firmly believe the negative moral implications of content producers taking so much off the top of content creators take of the transaction to be much worse than the implications of someone downloading a file without paying. This argument is all about perspective (lots of different right answers). Mine is just one that tends to support the creator not the producer, by attending live shows and book signings. Live appearances are where creators make the money. Maybe all the content creators need a payment system/network for their web sites that allows guilty parties to pay money directly to them so they don't have to feel bad about downloading their content from sources other than the producers.
  - tzs 16y ago
    How about "polluters" instead of "thief"? I need to change the oil on my lawn mower. I could spend the 45 minutes it would take to get to an approved oil disposal facility--or I could just dump it in the strip of weeds next to my fence. The latter will cause no measurable harm. Hell, it might even kill some of the weeds that I don't like there, but because of the way the ground slopes down as it approaches the fence I can't reasonably mow. Even if some of my oil makes it the 50 feet or so down to the ditch that carries rainwater runoff to (eventually) Puget Sound, it will be so dilute by then there will be no measurable harm. So, is it OK for me to just dump my oil? No, because even though my dumping would cause no measurable harm, if everyone dumped it would cause great harm to public resources, such as Puget Sound. The situation is similar with intellectual property. We've set up a public resource--the IP law framework--which gives intellectual goods certain legal attributes designed to make them behave similar to real property, so as to allow for the use of the same economic systems that we use for dealing with physical goods to be applied to intangible goods. When an individual ignores that framework, he's behaving just like someone dumping oil on their weed patch. They cause no measurable harm, but if a lot of people did it, it would destroy a public resource.

tptacek 16y ago

Sadly, lots of them are now $13, up from the flat $10 that Amazon used to charge for all best sellers. Those prices seem high. The fact that e-books involve no printing, binding, shipping, distributing or taking back and shredding unsold copies ought to save you something. And it’s outrageous that you can’t sell or even give away an e-book when you’re finished with it. You paid for it; why shouldn’t you be allowed to pass it on? (End of rant.) Argh. This isn't how pricing works. If it was, Photoshop would cost 40 cents. $13... for a book! Egads!

Supermighty 16y ago
It will be this way until some upstart disrupts the industry taking a smaller cut for routing authors directly to customers side stepping the old publishing houses.
- tptacek 16y ago
  I'll be happy to hear that authors are getting (say) 80% of the $15 that books end up costing, but that doesn't change the fact that book pricing has nothing whatsoever to do with materials and binding and whatnot.
  - Supermighty 16y ago
    I would love to hear that too. The sad fact is that author's are getting even less for ebooks while the publisher is getting more. http://www.daemonsbooks.com/2010/08/09/ebook-vs-regular-book-pricing/ http://www.daemonsbooks.com/2010/08/09/ebook-vs-regular-book...
    - tptacek 16y ago
      I'm on board with this, but that doesn't change anything about book pricing; this is an orthogonal concern.
- dpapathanasiou 16y ago
  We're working on it: http://fifobooks.com/authors.html http://fifobooks.com/authors.html

turnersauce 16y ago

I don't find the Nook's touch screen to be "balky" at all, at least in comparison to any touchscreen phone. In fact, I think that the use of a touchscreen instead of a hardware keyboard opens the door for a lot more design flexibility.

moultano 16y ago

The music industry lost 10 years believing that DRM works and it may never recover. Now the publishing industry is looking to do the same . . . Software is the only medium in which DRM has any hope of succeeding long-term, and that's only because it typically needs to be managed as a service. Video can tolerate it for now because the file sizes are too large to conveniently separate from the physical media, but that won't be true for long.

tailrecursion 16y ago
Game consoles have been successful so far with closed systems, and they've learned over the years how to improve their security, a key one being forced firmware updates.
- moultano 16y ago
  That's a very particular case because no one has the expectation of being able to play a game for one system on another, and there are legitimate technical reasons for that being hard to do.
MC27 16y ago
Sadly, I think book DRM could be successful. Amazon is trying to create a de facto platform - rather than just a device - and so long as they port it to as many devices as they can, it will do well. Many are avoiding Apple's book service for this reason.
ja27 16y ago
For most people, DRM doesn't bother them at all until stuff stops working. So far, DVDs pretty much play in every DVD player. (If less PC makers would ship Windows without third party DVD software, more people would care.) Music was closest to having real DRM problems, but almost every non-hacker I know is perfectly fine with Apple's DRM because they only listen to music in iTunes or on an iPod. If other devices ever really became popular, non-DRM music might finally become essential to the average person. So as long as the average person only uses the Kindle (or Nook or Sony) and never tries to port their DRMed ebooks to a new, incompatible device, they won't feel the pain of DRM. But first we need average people to start using ereaders for a while, which I think is close to happening.

motters 16y ago

I am a fan of books, but I'll only get an ebook reader if: a) I can be confident that books purchased will still be readable in ten years. b) That I can still do all of the usual things I do with books, like lending and moving them from one platform (shelf) to another. c) That at no time there is even the possibility of books being remotely deleted from my device without my permission. d) That ebooks I purchased are owned by me, not rented or temporarily borrowed.

richchan 16y ago

Has any one heard anything about the Kindle Development Kit? Looks like they are still in private beta. I wonder if there will be Kindle apps (and app store??) coming any time soon.