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The benefits of being an EU member are primarily given to the citizens (free movement, ability to work). The costs to be a member are paid, effectively, by the
by mabbo 9y ago
The benefits of being an EU member are primarily given to the citizens (free movement, ability to work). The costs to be a member are paid, effectively, by the state (migrants moving in, adherence to EU laws, etc). This is a very hand-wavey generalization, I agree, but let's consider it kind of true for a moment here.
If states can leave the EU, and stop paying the costs while maintaining the benefits to their citizens, what democracy would ever vote to stay?
In short, if this trial is to find that the British can all retain their EU status, regardless of whether the law is correct on doing so, it would mark the end of the European Union in very short order.
- fwdpropaganda 9y agoI'm not sure I understand your logic. Each country has its own rules on who it gives citizenship. The UK has these rules too, and many Europeans have obtained citizenship in the UK. It's natural that British citizens can obtain citizenship in states whose rules will give it to them. What am I missing?
- masklinn 9y agoThat the article is not about getting citizenship to a member state in order to keep EU citizenship, but in gaining EU citizenship independently from citizenship from a member state.
- fwdpropaganda 9y agoActually if you read closely it's not about gaining EU citizenship, it's about not losing it if you're British. There's only two lines in that article that refer to what this people are actually fighting for: > The shared assumption of the European Union and the UK government is that Brexit will mean British citizens will automatically forfeit these rights. But this is being tested in a case brought by a group of UK nationals living in Amsterdam > “there is reason to doubt the correctness of the interpretation of article 20 that the loss of the status of citizen of an EU member state leads to loss of EU citizenship as well”
- masklinn 9y ago> Actually if you read closely it's not about gaining EU citizenship, it's about not losing it if you're British. The operative word is independently. The article is about gaining EU citizenship independently from being a member national, whereas Article 20 is worded such that citizenship is accessed through member nationality. So yes, the article is about gaining EU citizenship.
- fwdpropaganda 9y agoThe word "independently" doesn't even appear in this article. Calling it an operative word is just talking out of your ass. So no, it's not.
- beojan 9y ago> In short, if this trial is to find that the British can all retain their EU status, regardless of whether the law is correct on doing so, it would mark the end of the European Union in very short order. The idea is to find out if EU citizenship is independent of national citizenship. I don't think this would lead to the end of the EU, because if all the member states decide to leave the EU, and all their citizens decide they want to keep EU citizenship anyhow, have they not just demonstrated that the EU is then the democratic state with sovereignty over that territory?
- mabbo 9y agoRight, but this is hacker news so think like a hacker. I'll have my state join, get all my citizen EU citizenship, then leave the EU. Now I don't have to allow free movement of EU citizens in my country, but so my people can have free movement in EU member states.
- beojan 9y agoMy point was that, if, after your country leaves the EU, all your citizens opt to keep EU citizenship, then (through self-determination) they have given the EU a claim to continued sovereignty over your territory.