5 ms·

If infantile religious endoctrinement was avoided, then it would only take one generation for religions to disappear almost entirely.

by bpizzi 9y ago

badosu 9y ago
Not so sure about it. Religions tell a compelling story for multiple other reasons. Maybe it could happen if some of these roles were expanded by the media as it seems to be an ongoing process, e.g. superheroes movies. I am not sure if that would be desirable though.
- 1_player 9y ago
  I agree with GP, but it's a hard point to prove. I only have my (and my brothers) anecdotal experience: We weren't baptised, nobody ever pushed or even talked religion with us, we went to church with grandma a couple times a year, and lived in a regular Catholic country (Italy). I recall the first time I thought about God and afterlife and my spirituality I was around 14, old enough to entertain these kind of thoughts, and old enough not to care. God wasn't just a concept I felt I needed in my life. We're 3 brothers (and a sister), and only she wanted to be baptised when we was younger, around 8, because her grandmother (which wasn't MY grandmother) was somewhat religious, and often talked about it with her. Now she's 12, and she's not interested anymore, probably after the influence of the three older brothers who go through life without any consideration about spirituality. Again, this is just a N=4 experience, but living in Europe, where most modern families are not religious anymore, it's most apparent. Only one person in my 50 closest acquaintances believes in God, and goes to church. Yet everybody is baptised, all families have a crucifix in the house, and everybody goes through a couple months reading the Bible with their priest (catechism) when they're 10 or 11 years old. I doubt many of their sons and grandsons will find any interest in religion.
  - golemotron 9y ago
    There's an inverse correlation between social safety net and religiosity [1] [1] http://faculty.washington.edu/tgill/Gill%20Lundsgaarde%20Welfare%20Religion.pdf http://faculty.washington.edu/tgill/Gill%20Lundsgaarde%20Wel...
- bpizzi 9y ago
  Of course some percentage will seek religion on their own. But the main point of that fathomless hypothesis is that, on the scale of humanity, today's religion would fall back to old traditions initiated in a previous era and now only followed by factions of lunatics.
golemotron 9y ago
Interestingly the same is true of secular indoctrination. Christianity has resurfaced and flourished in Russia and Eastern Europe in the wake of the Soviet Union.
nolliebs180 9y ago
But there are always multiple generations living at the same time. Do you only ever deal with one generation of people day in and day out?
- bpizzi 9y ago
  Well, let me rephrase more accurately then: 'then religions would gradually be forgotten as more and more endoctrined people die without passing their religious doctrine to their children'.
Analemma_ 9y ago
Is this supposed be an argument for infantile religions indoctrination? "If we didn't cram this down the throats of captive audiences with undeveloped critical thinking skills, no one would believe it!". There's a popular meme going around describing the correct reaction to such a claim: "Then perish".
meri_dian 9y ago
Maybe the religions that we are familiar with today, but new religions will take their place. Why? Well, explain where the universe came from. Explain consciousness. Explain what happens after we die. Can you? I didn't think you could. There are no human accessible answers to these questions. Humanity will forever be confused when we ponder them. I love the scientific method but it in principle cannot answer these questions.
- bpizzi 9y ago
  I fully agree on what you said. But the question is, as always, about proportions and statistics: how many people adhere to a religion today because their parent told them they would go to hell otherwise, versus how many choosed actively by seeking a spiritual answers in questions not answered by science?
- pasquinelli 9y ago
  i can't answer a lot of questions, some of which i'm actually interested in, but what's religion got that i don't?
- jungturk 9y ago
  I'm not convinced that folks would defer to new religions to address those questions. I don't have data to support it, but I think the modern mind is better equipped to accept uncertainty and ignorance these days so some might just allow those questions to remain presently unanswered. Even if the scientific method doesn't directly answer a question, it models the approach of using a placeholder for things not yet known rather than demanding someone make shit up to eliminate the unknown.

If infantile religious endoctrinement was avoided, then it would only take one generation for religions to disappear almost entirely.

by bpizzi 9y ago

If infantile religious endoctrinement was avoided, then it would only take one generation for religions to disappear almost entirely.

badosu 9y ago

Not so sure about it. Religions tell a compelling story for multiple other reasons. Maybe it could happen if some of these roles were expanded by the media as it seems to be an ongoing process, e.g. superheroes movies. I am not sure if that would be desirable though.

1_player 9y ago
I agree with GP, but it's a hard point to prove. I only have my (and my brothers) anecdotal experience: We weren't baptised, nobody ever pushed or even talked religion with us, we went to church with grandma a couple times a year, and lived in a regular Catholic country (Italy). I recall the first time I thought about God and afterlife and my spirituality I was around 14, old enough to entertain these kind of thoughts, and old enough not to care. God wasn't just a concept I felt I needed in my life. We're 3 brothers (and a sister), and only she wanted to be baptised when we was younger, around 8, because her grandmother (which wasn't MY grandmother) was somewhat religious, and often talked about it with her. Now she's 12, and she's not interested anymore, probably after the influence of the three older brothers who go through life without any consideration about spirituality. Again, this is just a N=4 experience, but living in Europe, where most modern families are not religious anymore, it's most apparent. Only one person in my 50 closest acquaintances believes in God, and goes to church. Yet everybody is baptised, all families have a crucifix in the house, and everybody goes through a couple months reading the Bible with their priest (catechism) when they're 10 or 11 years old. I doubt many of their sons and grandsons will find any interest in religion.
- golemotron 9y ago
  There's an inverse correlation between social safety net and religiosity [1] [1] http://faculty.washington.edu/tgill/Gill%20Lundsgaarde%20Welfare%20Religion.pdf http://faculty.washington.edu/tgill/Gill%20Lundsgaarde%20Wel...
bpizzi 9y ago
Of course some percentage will seek religion on their own. But the main point of that fathomless hypothesis is that, on the scale of humanity, today's religion would fall back to old traditions initiated in a previous era and now only followed by factions of lunatics.

golemotron 9y ago

Interestingly the same is true of secular indoctrination. Christianity has resurfaced and flourished in Russia and Eastern Europe in the wake of the Soviet Union.

nolliebs180 9y ago

But there are always multiple generations living at the same time. Do you only ever deal with one generation of people day in and day out?

bpizzi 9y ago
Well, let me rephrase more accurately then: 'then religions would gradually be forgotten as more and more endoctrined people die without passing their religious doctrine to their children'.

Analemma_ 9y ago

Is this supposed be an argument for infantile religions indoctrination? "If we didn't cram this down the throats of captive audiences with undeveloped critical thinking skills, no one would believe it!". There's a popular meme going around describing the correct reaction to such a claim: "Then perish".

meri_dian 9y ago

Maybe the religions that we are familiar with today, but new religions will take their place. Why? Well, explain where the universe came from. Explain consciousness. Explain what happens after we die. Can you? I didn't think you could. There are no human accessible answers to these questions. Humanity will forever be confused when we ponder them. I love the scientific method but it in principle cannot answer these questions.

bpizzi 9y ago
I fully agree on what you said. But the question is, as always, about proportions and statistics: how many people adhere to a religion today because their parent told them they would go to hell otherwise, versus how many choosed actively by seeking a spiritual answers in questions not answered by science?
pasquinelli 9y ago
i can't answer a lot of questions, some of which i'm actually interested in, but what's religion got that i don't?
jungturk 9y ago
I'm not convinced that folks would defer to new religions to address those questions. I don't have data to support it, but I think the modern mind is better equipped to accept uncertainty and ignorance these days so some might just allow those questions to remain presently unanswered. Even if the scientific method doesn't directly answer a question, it models the approach of using a placeholder for things not yet known rather than demanding someone make shit up to eliminate the unknown.