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I don't know how health care works anywhere else, but health expenses can range from $250 for a standard checkup, which I just got (note: it's supposed to be co

I don't know how health care works anywhere else, but health expenses can range from $250 for a standard checkup, which I just got (note: it's supposed to be covered for free, but apparently insurance companies are now rejecting claims willy nilly in order to save money) to $10,000 for delivering a baby, to astronomical numbers for anything else. It really leads to a persistent feeling of danger, so yes, making 100k instead of 40k could literally save your life, or at least keep you from being an indebted loan shark victim for the rest of your life.

IkmoIkmo 9y ago
> It really leads to a persistent feeling of danger, so yes, making 100k instead of 40k could literally save your life, or at least keep you from being an indebted loan shark victim for the rest of your life. Right, that problem just doesn't exist in the Netherlands. Basically everyone pays, I would guess, around $150 a month median for insurance, with a standard deviation of probably around $25. That covers anything life threatening and quite a bit more. There's a bit of co-pay on things like dental and there's a mandatory own-risk of about $500 a year on certain procedures. If you're about 10% below the median income in the Netherlands you get an insurance subsidy which tops out slightly above $100 a month.
- gambiting 9y ago
  And also, most importantly, even if you lose your job you are still 100% covered. If you get some weird condition that requires a dozen operations and expensive medicine, it won't have any effect on your payments either. There's no such thing as denied coverage due to preexisting condition or anything silly like that - essentially if you are a lawful resident you can just go to hospital and get treated for free, regardless of your financial status.
- ivanhoe 9y ago
  But on the other hand taxes are significantly higher than in US, in order to finance that system. It's a trade off...
  - IkmoIkmo 9y ago
    Absolutely. The point I'm trying to make here though, which I lightly implied, is that regressive tax systems and distributive justice lead to overal higher happiness. i.e., if there are diminishing marginal returns of happiness from money, it makes sense that Total Happiness in a country is optimised through a substantially regressive system. That's one of the interesting things about it.
    - shoo 9y ago
      > regressive tax systems and distributive justice lead to overal higher happiness. I suspect by "regressive tax" you mean "a tax rate that increases as the amount subject to taxation increases" . Wikipedia defines "regressive tax" to be the opposite one- where the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases. Or you're making a fairly non-obvious and interesting claim!
      - leetcrew 9y ago
        I believe NL taxes are in fact regressive in the usual sense of the word. I'm curious what the justification for this claim is as well.
        IkmoIkmo 9y ago
        > I believe NL taxes are in fact regressive in the usual sense of the word. They're definitely not? > I'm curious what the justification for this claim is as well. My claim makes no sense cause I used the wrong (opposite) word! Apologies, please read it the other way around.
        leetcrew 9y ago
        I wrote that comment a bit carelessly. the income tax itself is progressive, but things like VAT are regressive and ultimately make up a far greater share of tax collected. the EU as a whole actually has a more regressive tax system than the united states (although they spend the proceeds very differently), but in the netherlands, the regressive and progressive taxes essentially cancel out so that overall taxes are flat. here are some sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/other-countries-dont-have-a-47/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/other... https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/12/inequality-and-taxes https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/12/i... https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/05/the-liberal-lefts-dirty-little-secret-the-middle-class-and-poor-pay-for-the-entitlement-state/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/05/...
JBlue42 9y ago
Had to get a TB test prior to starting a new job. Everything was covered for me but there's the cost of health care itself in the US plus the little cuts that add up to. If can't get validation, parking is expensive. A little sign above the check-in desk said that there would be a $25 charge to fill out worker's comp forms. At least they had movies on and weren't blasting Fox News.

IkmoIkmo 9y ago

> It really leads to a persistent feeling of danger, so yes, making 100k instead of 40k could literally save your life, or at least keep you from being an indebted loan shark victim for the rest of your life. Right, that problem just doesn't exist in the Netherlands. Basically everyone pays, I would guess, around $150 a month median for insurance, with a standard deviation of probably around $25. That covers anything life threatening and quite a bit more. There's a bit of co-pay on things like dental and there's a mandatory own-risk of about $500 a year on certain procedures. If you're about 10% below the median income in the Netherlands you get an insurance subsidy which tops out slightly above $100 a month.

gambiting 9y ago
And also, most importantly, even if you lose your job you are still 100% covered. If you get some weird condition that requires a dozen operations and expensive medicine, it won't have any effect on your payments either. There's no such thing as denied coverage due to preexisting condition or anything silly like that - essentially if you are a lawful resident you can just go to hospital and get treated for free, regardless of your financial status.
ivanhoe 9y ago
But on the other hand taxes are significantly higher than in US, in order to finance that system. It's a trade off...
- IkmoIkmo 9y ago
  Absolutely. The point I'm trying to make here though, which I lightly implied, is that regressive tax systems and distributive justice lead to overal higher happiness. i.e., if there are diminishing marginal returns of happiness from money, it makes sense that Total Happiness in a country is optimised through a substantially regressive system. That's one of the interesting things about it.
  - shoo 9y ago
    > regressive tax systems and distributive justice lead to overal higher happiness. I suspect by "regressive tax" you mean "a tax rate that increases as the amount subject to taxation increases" . Wikipedia defines "regressive tax" to be the opposite one- where the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases. Or you're making a fairly non-obvious and interesting claim!
    - leetcrew 9y ago
      I believe NL taxes are in fact regressive in the usual sense of the word. I'm curious what the justification for this claim is as well.
      - IkmoIkmo 9y ago
        > I believe NL taxes are in fact regressive in the usual sense of the word. They're definitely not? > I'm curious what the justification for this claim is as well. My claim makes no sense cause I used the wrong (opposite) word! Apologies, please read it the other way around.
        leetcrew 9y ago
        I wrote that comment a bit carelessly. the income tax itself is progressive, but things like VAT are regressive and ultimately make up a far greater share of tax collected. the EU as a whole actually has a more regressive tax system than the united states (although they spend the proceeds very differently), but in the netherlands, the regressive and progressive taxes essentially cancel out so that overall taxes are flat. here are some sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/other-countries-dont-have-a-47/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/other... https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/12/inequality-and-taxes https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/12/i... https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/05/the-liberal-lefts-dirty-little-secret-the-middle-class-and-poor-pay-for-the-entitlement-state/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/12/05/...

JBlue42 9y ago

Had to get a TB test prior to starting a new job. Everything was covered for me but there's the cost of health care itself in the US plus the little cuts that add up to. If can't get validation, parking is expensive. A little sign above the check-in desk said that there would be a $25 charge to fill out worker's comp forms. At least they had movies on and weren't blasting Fox News.