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Show HN: Graphite – A decentralized and encrypted Google Docs alternative

330 points by jhunter1016 9y ago

mariushop 9y ago
Can I just say I found this thread very informative for tackling encryption on a web text editor/document storage:)
djsumdog 9y ago
The github link really needs to be on the main site. I do like that the whole thing is GPLv3. Not enough GPLv3 stuff out there these days, or even GPL in general.
ydecl 9y ago
This thing is fast! I'm impressed... Can't wait to see what's in the updates.
Moodles 9y ago
This is probably a very naive question: What are the main differences between this and git?
- loueed 9y ago
  Heres how they explain it on the Blockstack website. Blockstack uses the lower layers of the traditional internet and focuses on decentralizing the application layer. Blockstack provides key tools and infrastructure to developers enabling decentralized storage and decentralized authentication & identity. Developers build single-page applications in JavaScript then plug into user-run APIs, which eliminates centralized points of control. Users run decentralized apps through the Blockstack browser and give explicit read/write permissions to their data. Information is encrypted and stored on users’ personal devices. There are no middlemen, no passwords, and no massive data silos to breach.
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Not much of a better explanation than that! Thanks for posting that. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at blockstack.org and feel free to review Graphite's repo (it's 100% open source): https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack
bringtheaction 9y ago
Sign in button does nothing on iOS 11. Also, is the project open source? Otherwise there is less appeal even though it is decentralized.
- la_oveja 9y ago
  Yes, it's in the FAQ.
  - bringtheaction 9y ago
    Ah yes so it is. I looked everywhere else but didn’t expect the FAQ to contain anything relating to that. Do you know the link to the repositories? They are not in the FAQ.
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Sorry I didn't put it on the marketing site. Need to get that updated. Here's the link: https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Graphite is not yet available on mobile. Desktop and laptop only until probably the end of March.
la_oveja 9y ago
>Are there storage limits? >There are no storage limits for documents, spreadsheets, or messages. >How much does it cost? >Graphite for personal use is completely free. So, unlimited storage, shareable and decentralized, for free? Where's the bait?
- vsund 9y ago
  It uses Blockstack for the decentralized foundation it's built on. (Among other things) Blockstack stores your data on storage providers you connected to it (such as Google Drive, Dropbox, etc). Both, Graphite and Blockstack, are fully open source. So there's nobody who will get in between you and your documents.
  - jakecopp 9y ago
    If it's stored on Google Drive, why not use Google Docs? If it's stored on Dropbox, why not use any local editor?
    - JustFinishedBSG 9y ago
      Because Crypto
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Storing an unencrypted file with a single storage provider is neither private nor secure. Blockstack allows users to select multiple storage providers, allowing for data replication and mitigation of any single source of failure. Additionally, encrypting a file client-side before it is stored means that Google or Dropbox or whoever can snoop all they want and not be able to see your data.
julienfr112 9y ago
Spreadsheet and doc functionalities are very limited : you can't drag a formula, it just copies the value. You can't draw on a doc. It's more like a toy than a google doc replacement.
- pedalpete 9y ago
  That's quite the compliment, the most impressive things are often mistaken as toys at first glance. Home computers were a toy, the internet was a toy, airplanes were toys, the automobile was a toy... I'm not suggesting that Graphite is going to have that kind of impact, but ...
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    Yes, but many more unimpressive things are correctly assessed as toys. Your argument is like someone saying, “he sucks at basketball, he was cut from his high school team” and responding “that’s quite the compliment, Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team.”
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  100% agreed on spreadsheets. Docs is designed for writing. There will be more features but drawing is not an early priority. Graphite just launched. You'll see improvements quickly. Thanks for giving it a shot!
  - julienfr112 9y ago
    Gambate !
chillydawg 9y ago
Graphite is an unfortunate name clash with graphite monitoring and metrics tools.
- Lerc 9y ago
  I made a graph plotter called the same. Even when I came up with the name I knew it would clash. I was unaware of the clashing projects but by using a non-mutilated word I was fairly certain they would exist. There are more projects than words, Possibly more projects than easily pronounceable utterances. Is there any good solution? The dystopian vision - "I'm sorry the project name Graphite is already taken, Graphite001675 is available"
- jacobush 9y ago
  For now, if this takes off, monitoring is very niche compared to Docs.
  - bvrmn 9y ago
    If it takes off then will complicate life for ops. Very mean.
    - jacobush 9y ago
      There are only so many common words to go around. As long as something is not in the same biz, how mean can it be?
- l2dy 9y ago
  Also clashes with a "smart font" system: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=projects&item_id=graphite_home http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=projects...
- comboy 9y ago
  And it's pretty popular. There are so many unique or made up names to choose from that help users later when looking for some solution tremendously. Why choose something that is already associated with some popular software? Especially given that it's also going to have some charts.
lawnchair 9y ago
This will easily be confused with Graphite the monitoring tool
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Good feedback! I actually wasn't aware of Graphite Monitoring until this comment.
  - lazyjones 9y ago
    That's not the only name clash... Didn't you google for "graphite" before choosing the name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(software) http://ashlar.com/2d-3d-drafting/2d-3d-cad-graphite.html http://ashlar.com/2d-3d-drafting/2d-3d-cad-graphite.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL) http://alice.loria.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22 http://alice.loria.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti... http://www.samsontech.com/support/samson/products/graphite49/ http://www.samsontech.com/support/samson/products/graphite49... ...
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Graphite is the material from which pencil lead is made, a fitting name for a writing app. The expectation was never that Graphite (this one) was going to be the only company, app, or service with that name. Thanks for the links!
      - lazyjones 9y ago
        "GraphiteDocs" would probably work better in the long run.
        jhunter1016 9y ago
        Graphite Docs is the legal name of the company :)
  - 9y ago
pjmlp 9y ago
> Own your documents Rule number one is not to rely on other people's computers to write them in first place.
- vog 9y ago
  Not sure why you were downvoted, because I think you have a very good point. I often see us, as web developers, being blind to obvious, simple, local solutions. Perhaps this is because in many areas going from native to web is a win. Or, because too many web developers are exposed to business models around developing web applications mostly as a vehicle to fetch user data. (Fortunately, this is not true for intranet web applications which is a niche where I'm quite happy to work in.)
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    There's nothing wrong with local applications. What Graphite is trying to solve for is the convenience of access across multiple devices without losing the privacy of what you'd expect from a local app. Happy to talk more about this in detail!
    - icc97 9y ago
      how does this differ from local documents combined with dropbox?
      - jhunter1016 9y ago
        Good question. The primary difference is that your file data is encrypted client-side before it ever reaches the storage provider of your choice. And that data can only be decrypted client-side in the app. You can, of course, PGP (as one example) encrypt your files yourself and store them on a local Dropbox folder that syncs. But, Graphite is encrypted by default without any additional work on the user's end. The other main difference is that you can share your files with anyone that has a Blockstack ID regardless of what storage method they use. You might use Dropbox while another user uses Azure, and neither user would know the difference, and the app will work seamlessly.
hliyan 9y ago
Looks good, but as a google docs alternative? While the editor is fairly usable, the spreadsheet is very feature anaemic -- just enter data, export as CSV, insert/delete rows, alignment, fill handle, simple formulas and print. Although I did notice that it allows you to right click and make individual cells read only. I wish Excel had that...
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Absolutely agree with you on spreadsheet functionality. But the additional features you're looking for are coming. I should have a public roadmap out soon that I'd love to get feedback on.
  - hliyan 9y ago
    That's great to hear! I just noticed that functions like SUM and MEDIAN also work, which is a good thing.
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Yes! All of the Javascript Math functions should work. Let me know if you hit one that's not working, though.
- y4mi 9y ago
  haha, i've pretty much migrated to google docs, so i didn't realize how terrible that workflow was in excel. I didn't need such a function back when i still used it. for anyone else wondering: you can only have a whitelist of editable fields in an excel worksheet, and adding items to that whitelist is a well hidden feature https://support.office.com/en-us/article/lock-or-unlock-specific-areas-of-a-protected-worksheet-75481b72-db8a-4267-8c43-042a5f2cd93a https://support.office.com/en-us/article/lock-or-unlock-spec...
sametmax 9y ago
Too many pages and things to fill before even trying the product. The way to even start a quick hello world is really not obvious.
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  This is helpful feedback. You have to download the Blockstack Browser in order to communicate with the blockchain for registering your name and zone file. However, you should be able to get up and running in just a couple minutes. Any suggestions for specific improvements?
  - sametmax 9y ago
    If I give a try to a similar product, I want it to be as easy as: https://framapad.org/ https://framapad.org/ Then I can sign up, and so on.
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Thanks. Unless I'm missing something, Framapad and Etherpad are centralized services. Graphite is decentralized.
      - sametmax 9y ago
        Yes. The ease of experience is what i look for, not the same features. We all get a decentralised service is harder to setup.
  - larrysalibra 9y ago
    Larry from Blockstack here. We're really focused on improving the on-boarding process for users who are new to the Blockstack ecosystem so it only takes on a few seconds for users to get started with a Blockstack app instead of immediately asking users to download and install the Blockstack Browser. There's a bit of a discussion about how this will work on mobile here: https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-mobile-plans/3621/6?u=larry https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-mobile-plans/3621/... We want to really reduce the friction of on-boarding new users to amazing apps like Graphite.
tamalsaha001 9y ago
When is the ICO?
- chrisvalleybay 9y ago
  Blockstack already had one. https://icodrops.com/blockstack/ https://icodrops.com/blockstack/
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Ha! I'll leave the ICOs up to the folks powering the ecosystem for decentralized apps.
ThePhysicist 9y ago
Congrats, this looks really great! Do you plan turning this into a product/service or is it a side project? I think there's a real market for secure alternatives to popular cloud services so I hope this will be successful. Personally, I moved most of my data and services (G-Mail, Dropbox, AWS) away from the US to European alternatives, which fortunately stepped up their game in the last years (IMHO) and are often quite usable. I haven't found a good alternative to G-Docs for collaborative editing though, so pretty excited about something like this. I think a traditional encrypted backend data store would be more adequate for most users though.
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Thanks! Yes, there are enterprise features in development for the business side of things. The consumer app that you see (plus enhancements coming) will continue to be free, though. I can imagine a world where Blockstack apps and other decentralized apps can be combined to replace all of the cloud services we've been indoctrinated into believing were necessary.
- ataturk 9y ago
  There is also a great need for a secure alternative to today's cell phone OS offerings as well.
RobLach 9y ago
I believe this is only decentralized in intent and not actuality. This runs on top of Blockstack and after reading their Token whitepaper, particularly the section regarding the governance of the protocol... [1] Initially the stakeholder votes will be used as signaling and will not automatically activate protocol features. Fully-automated voting on protocol upgrades is an area of active research. So currently how I'm understanding is that at this point the protocol is controlled and hard forked at the whim of an oligarchy (a foundation I believe) with how it'll work down the road a point of "research". Furthermore... The initial trusted-set [of users] requires a single gatekeeper to perform identity checks. I probably just don't understand. [1]https://blockstack.com/tokenpaper.pdf https://blockstack.com/tokenpaper.pdf
- tinco 9y ago
  Though I understand your sentiment, please note that the protocol governance problem holds for most major currencies (i.e. Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc). So it is not a unique flaw to Blockstack. Please also note that though if you think about it from a centralized perspective (i.e. you using your regular browser downloading Blockstack from their own website) then yes, it is centralized. But if you think about it from a community perspective, since all code and protocol is open source, it is trivial to establish new protocol and code regardless of authority. So the essence of it is decentralized. And this is not just some theoretical thing, all of the major coin protocols have gone through community driven ('decentralized') forks that went directly against whoever was leading the projects at that time. For example Bitcoin<->Litecoin (and notable BCC recently), Ethereum<->Ethereum 'Classic' and Ripple<->Stellar.
  - tribby 9y ago
    > Ripple<->Stellar stellar is not a ripple fork.[0] this is a common misconception. 0. https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb/status/933358161783693312 https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb/status/933358161783693312
    - tinco 9y ago
      Thanks for the clarification!
zaarn 9y ago
This looks quite interesting. For a full replacement I would require a presentation app though. Is there a planned option to selfhost the frontend for personal (and/or limited) usage?
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Presentation app is on the roadmap. Honestly, I've been waiting to see how much demand there was before we launch into that. And yes, you can host since this is a serverless app. If you go to the repository, you can clone and run locally or deploy to the domain of your choosing if you want. The key thing to note, though, is that the app origin is used for storage. So, if you create documents locally, they will be accessible anytime you run the app at localhost:8080 (or whatever port), but they won't be accessible at app.graphitedocs.com. Similarly, if you self-host, those documents will be available at that app origin domain, but not others. If you want to use Graphite and share files, the best bet is to run it at app.graphitedocs.com, but you absolutely do not have to.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
toyg 9y ago
This seems to rely specifically on the Bitcoin blockchain. From the Blockstack-Core node install instructions: "Because each Blockstack Core node maintains a full copy of the network state locally, it will need to synchronize its state with the Bitcoin blockchain when it starts for the first time. This can take days." That's bad news in my book, Bitcoin is a very unstable world. I'd rather rely on a dedicated blockchain.
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  This is only if you choose to run a core node locally. Not all user will do so, and for them, they will be up and running in a couple minutes. The bitcoin blockchain is just the current blockchain being used. Blockstack was built to be migratable to any blockchain. In fact, they've already migrated once successfully.
  - toyg 9y ago
    Yeah, I guess it's more a criticism of Blockstack than Graphite specifically.
- jude- 9y ago
  Blockstack engineer here. Just want to clarify for other readers that Blockstack Core has a "fast-sync" mode that lets you spin up a full node in a minute or two. The downside is that it uses a recent signed snapshot from Blockstack PBC's servers (the public key is built into the software). If you have it installed, you can this to get started: $ blockstack-core fast-sync
dingo_bat 9y ago
How is this free? From the FAQ I can see they store the data blobs in Azure. It will get really expensive really soon.
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Storage in a data blob in Azure is just the default storage option. Users can and should connect their own storage providers (multiple for best prevention against centralized failure).
marknadal 9y ago
Cool concept, but note: I just tested this, and it is NOT a google docs alternative - it has no realtime sync (or at least, it wasn't working). I work extensively on decentralized/P2P distributed systems and realtime P2P sync is non-trivial, you need to use a specialized CRDT for it: - Here is an interactive animated explainer on how to do a P2P realtime syncing CRDT: http://gun.js.org/explainers/school/class.html http://gun.js.org/explainers/school/class.html - Here is an excellent more detailed explanation of how such a CRDT works, by Martin Kleppmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcWpzY8dIA&feature=youtu.be&t=29m36s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcWpzY8dIA&feature=youtu.be...
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  You're absolutely correct. In this iteration, collaboration is achieved asynchronously. Share a file, receiver can edit, receiver can share back, etc. Because real-time collaboration is not trivial, as you mentioned, we're making sure we do it right.
  - marknadal 9y ago
    Would love to help you out on that algorithm, I (and a bunch of other friendly P2P people) hang out at https://gitter.im/amark/gun https://gitter.im/amark/gun ! I know it isn't as catchy as Google Docs, but perhaps having the title be "Evernote alternative" or something like that? (IDK if evernote has realtime typing, I doubt they do... or somebody similar that doesn't), so that way people don't get dissapointed?
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      I sincerely appreciate that. Joining the Gitter room now :)
- brokenmachine 9y ago
  Just checked out gun, I have to say the tutorials are very well done. I'm not a javascript guy but I've been enjoying them. Looks like a great project!
icc97 9y ago
The features page [0] has as much content about 'contacts' as it does docs or spreadsheets. Personally for me the most important thing is that it can do all that I use Word/Excel for (I know this doesn't have to be the full feature set) - because without that I couldn't use it. So I would put the Docs / Spreadsheets sections at the top with screenshots of a reasonably complex document (contents/images/tables/sections) then a reasonably complicated spreadsheet. Only then after that would I start talking about contacts. There's a claim that it contains 'All the features you've come to expect from Google and Microsoft'. This could do with a comparison table saying exactly which features / functions are available across Word/G Docs/Graphite and across Excel/G Sheets/Graphite. [0]: https://www.graphitedocs.com/features https://www.graphitedocs.com/features
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  This is really great! I appreciate the ideas and feedback.
Erlich_Bachman 9y ago
Important note, a project that you need to look at if you are looking for a similar thing: Airbornos. It has about the same general premise, but is even more secure in some aspects, and is already operational. (No affiliation.)
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Airborn is solid! Graphite is decentralized, where Airborn is not. But that's not to say Airborn isn't a great project. And for what it's worth, Graphite is also operational :)
dsacco 9y ago
I see no mention anywhere, on Graphite or Blockstack, about how the encryption actually works. I’ve checked the following resources: * The Blockstack whitepaper: https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf * Each of the System Design documents listed here: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/tree/master/docs https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/tree/master/do... * Blockstack General FAQ: https://blockstack.org/faq https://blockstack.org/faq * Blockstack Technical FAQ: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/blob/master/docs/faq_technical.md https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/blob/master/do... * Blockstack Repository Readme: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core * The Graphite FAQ: https://www.graphitedocs.com/faq https://www.graphitedocs.com/faq * The Graphite Features: https://www.graphitedocs.com/features https://www.graphitedocs.com/features This is a red flag. “Encryption” is far too unspecified. I’m looking for specific primitives, constructions, algorithms and design decisions. I want to know how key exchange happens, if a library like libsodium is used, whether you’re using AES-GCM or ChaCha-Poly1305, etc. I’m looking for an architecture diagram to understand which of these questions is coherent. Is key derivation used? Under which algorithm? I’m assuming your IDs are SHA-256 hashes, but is that correct? I don’t know. Basically, aside from saying there are “ECDSA private keys” in passing, how precisely does encryption, key exchange and digital signing work? Maybe I missed a pretty obvious explanation in here - I was reading quickly (though pointedly). However, if that’s the case then mea culpa, and it should be easy to rectify by pointing out where exactly I missed this documentation. For reference, here are examples of documentation I’m looking for[1]: * Restic, under “Keys, Encryption and MAC”: https://restic.readthedocs.io/en/latest/100_references.html https://restic.readthedocs.io/en/latest/100_references.html * Wireguard: https://www.wireguard.com/protocol https://www.wireguard.com/protocol A basic overview of each primitive with a brief explanation of why it was chosen would go a long way here. I understand if Graphite is too young for this (though this should be a priority), but Blockstack should absolutely have something like this documented poignantly. If Blockstack does have this documented, Graphite should really link to it (poignantly). ________________ 1. I have no affiliation with either of these, though I personally use them, and they’re not competitors anyway.
- ablankst 9y ago
  I'm on the engineering team at Blockstack, and wrote the client-side encryption functions used by applications. I totally agree with the idea that if software uses encryption, it should be documented, open-source, and ideally use a standard encryption protocol. Being able to say "this is exactly how encryption works" in a system is important, and I'm glad you're asking these questions. Encryption in Blockstack apps is performed client-side via library calls in blockstack.js (our javascript library). The encryption routines are implemented here [1], and implement ECIES, using the user's application-specific private key. That private key is passed to an application during the application authentication process [2]. All a blockstack application has to do is pass { "encrypt": true } in the storage routines, and this is invoked. We definitely would like to provide better documentation and messaging around how applications engage and use our client libraries -- and documenting our encryption routines is part of that. However, in the meantime, you can feel free to check out or codebase (it's all open source), and we'd always welcome any kind of feedback! [1] https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/master/src/encryption.js#L63 https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/master/src/... [2] https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/feature/auth-doc-improvements/src/auth/README.md#app-private-key https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/feature/aut...
jaggs 9y ago
I really like this a lot. I like the fact it gives choices, it's open source and the first implementation is really solid for an MVP. Well done. It's rather like a cross between OwnCloud and that online app container service I've forgotten the name of. :) One major point though. Top of your dev timeline should be mobile!
- Gaelan 9y ago
  Sandstorm?
  - jaggs 9y ago
    YES! Thanks. :)
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Absolutely! End of March is the target.
  - jaggs 9y ago
    Excellent. Your challenge then is going to be how to keep it in people's minds long enough to gain a decent amount of committed traction. So many web apps like this come and go, but I have a feeling if you keep this simple and do some clever marketing (e.g. alliances) then this could be a real contender.
BLanen 9y ago
Another unnecessary application of blockchain tech.
tenryuu 9y ago
I still don't understand why everyone is going on about the block chain
gfodor 9y ago
Prediction: every dapp that ships over the next year as these technologies mature will have its top comment on HN be "actually this is not 100% decentralized" it would be very helpful to get out ahead of this and have a framework for classifying how decentralized an app is. otherwise we may find ourselves in a situation where nobody migrates off of fully centralized apps to less centralized apps because they aren't "fully decentralized", which would be a shame.
- skiman10 9y ago
  I completely agree. Do you have any thoughts on a framework for classifying these 'decentralized' apps?
- ucaetano 9y ago
  One way to do it is to think about which parts are centralized vs. distributed vs. replicated: discovery, authentication, processing, storage, files, etc. Take bitcoin, for example: the ledger is centralized (there is a single monolithic one) but its storage is replicated (there isn't a single central storage location) and the processing is decentralized.
  - mattnguyen 9y ago
    It doesn't follow that a "single monolithic ledger" means Bitcoin is decentralized. Since all (full) nodes carry a copy of the entire ledger and every participant in the network can propose transaction blocks to the blockchain, there isn't one party that controls writing to the ledger. Risk of centralization comes from mining pools that control 51% of the hashing power. [1] [1] https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack
    - ucaetano 9y ago
      > It doesn't follow that a "single monolithic ledger" means Bitcoin is decentralized Oh, I never mentioned that. But the implication of the single, monolithic ledger is that it isn't partition-tolerant, if you don't have access to the ledger, you can't transact. IIRC, the lightning network kinda addresses that by allowing off-central-ledger transactions.
JepZ 9y ago
Lately, I see the trend of calling a lot of different things decentralized. In fact they all are, but at the same time they are very different. The classical example of a decentralized application was the email server. Everyone could host one and they all would communicate with each other (in theory). And with the thing called Federation for Nextcloud, XMPP or Matrix servers it is pretty much the same. When you host a server, you have complete control over it. But recently, we see all those blockchain enabled networks which store the data on some of its nodes. You have no idea where your data is stored (cloud like), just protected by by some encryption, which is considered safe as of today. I am a huge fan of decentralized services as we have known them for a while, yet I look very skeptical at the new services. I mean they have their own set of unique features (e.g. excellent up-time, scaling on a network level, etc.), but at the same time they lack properties of the old decentralized applications (e.g. 'your data on your hardware'). Anybody knows if there are more precise terms than just calling them all 'decentralized'?
djangowithme 9y ago
Is the 16mb unsplash photo on the landing page really necessary?
yydcool 9y ago
100% decentralized? Where is my data actually being stored? This depends on your choices. By default, your data is stored in a dedicated Microsoft Azure Blob. Isn't that centralized? Azure is a centralized service, but by encrypting your data, and because your private key is never exposed, Azure cannot access your data. With data replication, there is no single-point of failure and no entity has access to the content of your files.
brokenmachine 9y ago
Are there any plans for an Android App, or will it all be browser-based? Also where is the github/code located?
- DavidNielsen 9y ago
  Seconded, e.g. going to the signup page on my iPhone 5 just leads to a blank page. I suspect the same might be true for my iPad Air despite being on a current iOS release. A slightly better onboarding experience would be worth a lot, even if the answer is "thine device is unsupported and no plan to support it exists."
fiatjaf 9y ago
What is Blockstack, in clear English?
royglueck 9y ago
While this one works great, what i would really recommend is a solution for integrating it with email. I found that the integration of using Hop email alongside this worked wonders Check it out at https://gethop.com/ https://gethop.com/?

330 points by jhunter1016 9y ago

Can I just say I found this thread very informative for tackling encryption on a web text editor/document storage:)

The github link really needs to be on the main site. I do like that the whole thing is GPLv3. Not enough GPLv3 stuff out there these days, or even GPL in general.

ydecl 9y ago

This thing is fast! I'm impressed... Can't wait to see what's in the updates.

Moodles 9y ago

This is probably a very naive question: What are the main differences between this and git?

loueed 9y ago
Heres how they explain it on the Blockstack website. Blockstack uses the lower layers of the traditional internet and focuses on decentralizing the application layer. Blockstack provides key tools and infrastructure to developers enabling decentralized storage and decentralized authentication & identity. Developers build single-page applications in JavaScript then plug into user-run APIs, which eliminates centralized points of control. Users run decentralized apps through the Blockstack browser and give explicit read/write permissions to their data. Information is encrypted and stored on users’ personal devices. There are no middlemen, no passwords, and no massive data silos to breach.
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  Not much of a better explanation than that! Thanks for posting that. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at blockstack.org and feel free to review Graphite's repo (it's 100% open source): https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack

bringtheaction 9y ago

Sign in button does nothing on iOS 11. Also, is the project open source? Otherwise there is less appeal even though it is decentralized.

la_oveja 9y ago
Yes, it's in the FAQ.
- bringtheaction 9y ago
  Ah yes so it is. I looked everywhere else but didn’t expect the FAQ to contain anything relating to that. Do you know the link to the repositories? They are not in the FAQ.
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Sorry I didn't put it on the marketing site. Need to get that updated. Here's the link: https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack https://github.com/jehunter5811/graphite-blockstack
jhunter1016 9y ago
Graphite is not yet available on mobile. Desktop and laptop only until probably the end of March.

la_oveja 9y ago

>Are there storage limits? >There are no storage limits for documents, spreadsheets, or messages. >How much does it cost? >Graphite for personal use is completely free. So, unlimited storage, shareable and decentralized, for free? Where's the bait?

vsund 9y ago
It uses Blockstack for the decentralized foundation it's built on. (Among other things) Blockstack stores your data on storage providers you connected to it (such as Google Drive, Dropbox, etc). Both, Graphite and Blockstack, are fully open source. So there's nobody who will get in between you and your documents.
- jakecopp 9y ago
  If it's stored on Google Drive, why not use Google Docs? If it's stored on Dropbox, why not use any local editor?
  - JustFinishedBSG 9y ago
    Because Crypto
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Storing an unencrypted file with a single storage provider is neither private nor secure. Blockstack allows users to select multiple storage providers, allowing for data replication and mitigation of any single source of failure. Additionally, encrypting a file client-side before it is stored means that Google or Dropbox or whoever can snoop all they want and not be able to see your data.

julienfr112 9y ago

Spreadsheet and doc functionalities are very limited : you can't drag a formula, it just copies the value. You can't draw on a doc. It's more like a toy than a google doc replacement.

pedalpete 9y ago
That's quite the compliment, the most impressive things are often mistaken as toys at first glance. Home computers were a toy, the internet was a toy, airplanes were toys, the automobile was a toy... I'm not suggesting that Graphite is going to have that kind of impact, but ...
- ggg9990 9y ago
  Yes, but many more unimpressive things are correctly assessed as toys. Your argument is like someone saying, “he sucks at basketball, he was cut from his high school team” and responding “that’s quite the compliment, Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team.”
jhunter1016 9y ago
100% agreed on spreadsheets. Docs is designed for writing. There will be more features but drawing is not an early priority. Graphite just launched. You'll see improvements quickly. Thanks for giving it a shot!
- julienfr112 9y ago
  Gambate !

chillydawg 9y ago

Graphite is an unfortunate name clash with graphite monitoring and metrics tools.

Lerc 9y ago
I made a graph plotter called the same. Even when I came up with the name I knew it would clash. I was unaware of the clashing projects but by using a non-mutilated word I was fairly certain they would exist. There are more projects than words, Possibly more projects than easily pronounceable utterances. Is there any good solution? The dystopian vision - "I'm sorry the project name Graphite is already taken, Graphite001675 is available"
jacobush 9y ago
For now, if this takes off, monitoring is very niche compared to Docs.
- bvrmn 9y ago
  If it takes off then will complicate life for ops. Very mean.
  - jacobush 9y ago
    There are only so many common words to go around. As long as something is not in the same biz, how mean can it be?
l2dy 9y ago
Also clashes with a "smart font" system: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=projects&item_id=graphite_home http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=projects...
comboy 9y ago
And it's pretty popular. There are so many unique or made up names to choose from that help users later when looking for some solution tremendously. Why choose something that is already associated with some popular software? Especially given that it's also going to have some charts.

lawnchair 9y ago

This will easily be confused with Graphite the monitoring tool

jhunter1016 9y ago
Good feedback! I actually wasn't aware of Graphite Monitoring until this comment.
- lazyjones 9y ago
  That's not the only name clash... Didn't you google for "graphite" before choosing the name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(software) http://ashlar.com/2d-3d-drafting/2d-3d-cad-graphite.html http://ashlar.com/2d-3d-drafting/2d-3d-cad-graphite.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL) http://alice.loria.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22 http://alice.loria.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti... http://www.samsontech.com/support/samson/products/graphite49/ http://www.samsontech.com/support/samson/products/graphite49... ...
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Graphite is the material from which pencil lead is made, a fitting name for a writing app. The expectation was never that Graphite (this one) was going to be the only company, app, or service with that name. Thanks for the links!
    - lazyjones 9y ago
      "GraphiteDocs" would probably work better in the long run.
      - jhunter1016 9y ago
        Graphite Docs is the legal name of the company :)
- 9y ago

pjmlp 9y ago

> Own your documents Rule number one is not to rely on other people's computers to write them in first place.

vog 9y ago
Not sure why you were downvoted, because I think you have a very good point. I often see us, as web developers, being blind to obvious, simple, local solutions. Perhaps this is because in many areas going from native to web is a win. Or, because too many web developers are exposed to business models around developing web applications mostly as a vehicle to fetch user data. (Fortunately, this is not true for intranet web applications which is a niche where I'm quite happy to work in.)
- jhunter1016 9y ago
  There's nothing wrong with local applications. What Graphite is trying to solve for is the convenience of access across multiple devices without losing the privacy of what you'd expect from a local app. Happy to talk more about this in detail!
  - icc97 9y ago
    how does this differ from local documents combined with dropbox?
    - jhunter1016 9y ago
      Good question. The primary difference is that your file data is encrypted client-side before it ever reaches the storage provider of your choice. And that data can only be decrypted client-side in the app. You can, of course, PGP (as one example) encrypt your files yourself and store them on a local Dropbox folder that syncs. But, Graphite is encrypted by default without any additional work on the user's end. The other main difference is that you can share your files with anyone that has a Blockstack ID regardless of what storage method they use. You might use Dropbox while another user uses Azure, and neither user would know the difference, and the app will work seamlessly.

hliyan 9y ago

Looks good, but as a google docs alternative? While the editor is fairly usable, the spreadsheet is very feature anaemic -- just enter data, export as CSV, insert/delete rows, alignment, fill handle, simple formulas and print. Although I did notice that it allows you to right click and make individual cells read only. I wish Excel had that...

jhunter1016 9y ago
Absolutely agree with you on spreadsheet functionality. But the additional features you're looking for are coming. I should have a public roadmap out soon that I'd love to get feedback on.
- hliyan 9y ago
  That's great to hear! I just noticed that functions like SUM and MEDIAN also work, which is a good thing.
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Yes! All of the Javascript Math functions should work. Let me know if you hit one that's not working, though.
y4mi 9y ago
haha, i've pretty much migrated to google docs, so i didn't realize how terrible that workflow was in excel. I didn't need such a function back when i still used it. for anyone else wondering: you can only have a whitelist of editable fields in an excel worksheet, and adding items to that whitelist is a well hidden feature https://support.office.com/en-us/article/lock-or-unlock-specific-areas-of-a-protected-worksheet-75481b72-db8a-4267-8c43-042a5f2cd93a https://support.office.com/en-us/article/lock-or-unlock-spec...

sametmax 9y ago

Too many pages and things to fill before even trying the product. The way to even start a quick hello world is really not obvious.

jhunter1016 9y ago
This is helpful feedback. You have to download the Blockstack Browser in order to communicate with the blockchain for registering your name and zone file. However, you should be able to get up and running in just a couple minutes. Any suggestions for specific improvements?
- sametmax 9y ago
  If I give a try to a similar product, I want it to be as easy as: https://framapad.org/ https://framapad.org/ Then I can sign up, and so on.
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    Thanks. Unless I'm missing something, Framapad and Etherpad are centralized services. Graphite is decentralized.
    - sametmax 9y ago
      Yes. The ease of experience is what i look for, not the same features. We all get a decentralised service is harder to setup.
- larrysalibra 9y ago
  Larry from Blockstack here. We're really focused on improving the on-boarding process for users who are new to the Blockstack ecosystem so it only takes on a few seconds for users to get started with a Blockstack app instead of immediately asking users to download and install the Blockstack Browser. There's a bit of a discussion about how this will work on mobile here: https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-mobile-plans/3621/6?u=larry https://forum.blockstack.org/t/blockstack-mobile-plans/3621/... We want to really reduce the friction of on-boarding new users to amazing apps like Graphite.

tamalsaha001 9y ago

When is the ICO?

chrisvalleybay 9y ago
Blockstack already had one. https://icodrops.com/blockstack/ https://icodrops.com/blockstack/
jhunter1016 9y ago
Ha! I'll leave the ICOs up to the folks powering the ecosystem for decentralized apps.

ThePhysicist 9y ago

Congrats, this looks really great! Do you plan turning this into a product/service or is it a side project? I think there's a real market for secure alternatives to popular cloud services so I hope this will be successful. Personally, I moved most of my data and services (G-Mail, Dropbox, AWS) away from the US to European alternatives, which fortunately stepped up their game in the last years (IMHO) and are often quite usable. I haven't found a good alternative to G-Docs for collaborative editing though, so pretty excited about something like this. I think a traditional encrypted backend data store would be more adequate for most users though.

jhunter1016 9y ago
Thanks! Yes, there are enterprise features in development for the business side of things. The consumer app that you see (plus enhancements coming) will continue to be free, though. I can imagine a world where Blockstack apps and other decentralized apps can be combined to replace all of the cloud services we've been indoctrinated into believing were necessary.
ataturk 9y ago
There is also a great need for a secure alternative to today's cell phone OS offerings as well.

RobLach 9y ago

I believe this is only decentralized in intent and not actuality. This runs on top of Blockstack and after reading their Token whitepaper, particularly the section regarding the governance of the protocol... [1] Initially the stakeholder votes will be used as signaling and will not automatically activate protocol features. Fully-automated voting on protocol upgrades is an area of active research. So currently how I'm understanding is that at this point the protocol is controlled and hard forked at the whim of an oligarchy (a foundation I believe) with how it'll work down the road a point of "research". Furthermore... The initial trusted-set [of users] requires a single gatekeeper to perform identity checks. I probably just don't understand. [1]https://blockstack.com/tokenpaper.pdf https://blockstack.com/tokenpaper.pdf

tinco 9y ago
Though I understand your sentiment, please note that the protocol governance problem holds for most major currencies (i.e. Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc). So it is not a unique flaw to Blockstack. Please also note that though if you think about it from a centralized perspective (i.e. you using your regular browser downloading Blockstack from their own website) then yes, it is centralized. But if you think about it from a community perspective, since all code and protocol is open source, it is trivial to establish new protocol and code regardless of authority. So the essence of it is decentralized. And this is not just some theoretical thing, all of the major coin protocols have gone through community driven ('decentralized') forks that went directly against whoever was leading the projects at that time. For example Bitcoin<->Litecoin (and notable BCC recently), Ethereum<->Ethereum 'Classic' and Ripple<->Stellar.
- tribby 9y ago
  > Ripple<->Stellar stellar is not a ripple fork.[0] this is a common misconception. 0. https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb/status/933358161783693312 https://twitter.com/JedMcCaleb/status/933358161783693312
  - tinco 9y ago
    Thanks for the clarification!

zaarn 9y ago

This looks quite interesting. For a full replacement I would require a presentation app though. Is there a planned option to selfhost the frontend for personal (and/or limited) usage?

jhunter1016 9y ago
Presentation app is on the roadmap. Honestly, I've been waiting to see how much demand there was before we launch into that. And yes, you can host since this is a serverless app. If you go to the repository, you can clone and run locally or deploy to the domain of your choosing if you want. The key thing to note, though, is that the app origin is used for storage. So, if you create documents locally, they will be accessible anytime you run the app at localhost:8080 (or whatever port), but they won't be accessible at app.graphitedocs.com. Similarly, if you self-host, those documents will be available at that app origin domain, but not others. If you want to use Graphite and share files, the best bet is to run it at app.graphitedocs.com, but you absolutely do not have to.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

toyg 9y ago

This seems to rely specifically on the Bitcoin blockchain. From the Blockstack-Core node install instructions: "Because each Blockstack Core node maintains a full copy of the network state locally, it will need to synchronize its state with the Bitcoin blockchain when it starts for the first time. This can take days." That's bad news in my book, Bitcoin is a very unstable world. I'd rather rely on a dedicated blockchain.

jhunter1016 9y ago
This is only if you choose to run a core node locally. Not all user will do so, and for them, they will be up and running in a couple minutes. The bitcoin blockchain is just the current blockchain being used. Blockstack was built to be migratable to any blockchain. In fact, they've already migrated once successfully.
- toyg 9y ago
  Yeah, I guess it's more a criticism of Blockstack than Graphite specifically.
jude- 9y ago
Blockstack engineer here. Just want to clarify for other readers that Blockstack Core has a "fast-sync" mode that lets you spin up a full node in a minute or two. The downside is that it uses a recent signed snapshot from Blockstack PBC's servers (the public key is built into the software). If you have it installed, you can this to get started: $ blockstack-core fast-sync

dingo_bat 9y ago

How is this free? From the FAQ I can see they store the data blobs in Azure. It will get really expensive really soon.

jhunter1016 9y ago
Storage in a data blob in Azure is just the default storage option. Users can and should connect their own storage providers (multiple for best prevention against centralized failure).

marknadal 9y ago

Cool concept, but note: I just tested this, and it is NOT a google docs alternative - it has no realtime sync (or at least, it wasn't working). I work extensively on decentralized/P2P distributed systems and realtime P2P sync is non-trivial, you need to use a specialized CRDT for it: - Here is an interactive animated explainer on how to do a P2P realtime syncing CRDT: http://gun.js.org/explainers/school/class.html http://gun.js.org/explainers/school/class.html - Here is an excellent more detailed explanation of how such a CRDT works, by Martin Kleppmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcWpzY8dIA&feature=youtu.be&t=29m36s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCcWpzY8dIA&feature=youtu.be...

jhunter1016 9y ago
You're absolutely correct. In this iteration, collaboration is achieved asynchronously. Share a file, receiver can edit, receiver can share back, etc. Because real-time collaboration is not trivial, as you mentioned, we're making sure we do it right.
- marknadal 9y ago
  Would love to help you out on that algorithm, I (and a bunch of other friendly P2P people) hang out at https://gitter.im/amark/gun https://gitter.im/amark/gun ! I know it isn't as catchy as Google Docs, but perhaps having the title be "Evernote alternative" or something like that? (IDK if evernote has realtime typing, I doubt they do... or somebody similar that doesn't), so that way people don't get dissapointed?
  - jhunter1016 9y ago
    I sincerely appreciate that. Joining the Gitter room now :)
brokenmachine 9y ago
Just checked out gun, I have to say the tutorials are very well done. I'm not a javascript guy but I've been enjoying them. Looks like a great project!

icc97 9y ago

The features page [0] has as much content about 'contacts' as it does docs or spreadsheets. Personally for me the most important thing is that it can do all that I use Word/Excel for (I know this doesn't have to be the full feature set) - because without that I couldn't use it. So I would put the Docs / Spreadsheets sections at the top with screenshots of a reasonably complex document (contents/images/tables/sections) then a reasonably complicated spreadsheet. Only then after that would I start talking about contacts. There's a claim that it contains 'All the features you've come to expect from Google and Microsoft'. This could do with a comparison table saying exactly which features / functions are available across Word/G Docs/Graphite and across Excel/G Sheets/Graphite. [0]: https://www.graphitedocs.com/features https://www.graphitedocs.com/features

jhunter1016 9y ago
This is really great! I appreciate the ideas and feedback.

Erlich_Bachman 9y ago

Important note, a project that you need to look at if you are looking for a similar thing: Airbornos. It has about the same general premise, but is even more secure in some aspects, and is already operational. (No affiliation.)

jhunter1016 9y ago
Airborn is solid! Graphite is decentralized, where Airborn is not. But that's not to say Airborn isn't a great project. And for what it's worth, Graphite is also operational :)

dsacco 9y ago

I see no mention anywhere, on Graphite or Blockstack, about how the encryption actually works. I’ve checked the following resources: * The Blockstack whitepaper: https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf https://blockstack.org/whitepaper.pdf * Each of the System Design documents listed here: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/tree/master/docs https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/tree/master/do... * Blockstack General FAQ: https://blockstack.org/faq https://blockstack.org/faq * Blockstack Technical FAQ: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/blob/master/docs/faq_technical.md https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core/blob/master/do... * Blockstack Repository Readme: https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-core * The Graphite FAQ: https://www.graphitedocs.com/faq https://www.graphitedocs.com/faq * The Graphite Features: https://www.graphitedocs.com/features https://www.graphitedocs.com/features This is a red flag. “Encryption” is far too unspecified. I’m looking for specific primitives, constructions, algorithms and design decisions. I want to know how key exchange happens, if a library like libsodium is used, whether you’re using AES-GCM or ChaCha-Poly1305, etc. I’m looking for an architecture diagram to understand which of these questions is coherent. Is key derivation used? Under which algorithm? I’m assuming your IDs are SHA-256 hashes, but is that correct? I don’t know. Basically, aside from saying there are “ECDSA private keys” in passing, how precisely does encryption, key exchange and digital signing work? Maybe I missed a pretty obvious explanation in here - I was reading quickly (though pointedly). However, if that’s the case then mea culpa, and it should be easy to rectify by pointing out where exactly I missed this documentation. For reference, here are examples of documentation I’m looking for[1]: * Restic, under “Keys, Encryption and MAC”: https://restic.readthedocs.io/en/latest/100_references.html https://restic.readthedocs.io/en/latest/100_references.html * Wireguard: https://www.wireguard.com/protocol https://www.wireguard.com/protocol A basic overview of each primitive with a brief explanation of why it was chosen would go a long way here. I understand if Graphite is too young for this (though this should be a priority), but Blockstack should absolutely have something like this documented poignantly. If Blockstack does have this documented, Graphite should really link to it (poignantly). ________________ 1. I have no affiliation with either of these, though I personally use them, and they’re not competitors anyway.

ablankst 9y ago
I'm on the engineering team at Blockstack, and wrote the client-side encryption functions used by applications. I totally agree with the idea that if software uses encryption, it should be documented, open-source, and ideally use a standard encryption protocol. Being able to say "this is exactly how encryption works" in a system is important, and I'm glad you're asking these questions. Encryption in Blockstack apps is performed client-side via library calls in blockstack.js (our javascript library). The encryption routines are implemented here [1], and implement ECIES, using the user's application-specific private key. That private key is passed to an application during the application authentication process [2]. All a blockstack application has to do is pass { "encrypt": true } in the storage routines, and this is invoked. We definitely would like to provide better documentation and messaging around how applications engage and use our client libraries -- and documenting our encryption routines is part of that. However, in the meantime, you can feel free to check out or codebase (it's all open source), and we'd always welcome any kind of feedback! [1] https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/master/src/encryption.js#L63 https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/master/src/... [2] https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/feature/auth-doc-improvements/src/auth/README.md#app-private-key https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack.js/blob/feature/aut...

jaggs 9y ago

I really like this a lot. I like the fact it gives choices, it's open source and the first implementation is really solid for an MVP. Well done. It's rather like a cross between OwnCloud and that online app container service I've forgotten the name of. :) One major point though. Top of your dev timeline should be mobile!

Gaelan 9y ago
Sandstorm?
- jaggs 9y ago
  YES! Thanks. :)
jhunter1016 9y ago
Absolutely! End of March is the target.
- jaggs 9y ago
  Excellent. Your challenge then is going to be how to keep it in people's minds long enough to gain a decent amount of committed traction. So many web apps like this come and go, but I have a feeling if you keep this simple and do some clever marketing (e.g. alliances) then this could be a real contender.

BLanen 9y ago

Another unnecessary application of blockchain tech.

tenryuu 9y ago

I still don't understand why everyone is going on about the block chain

gfodor 9y ago

Prediction: every dapp that ships over the next year as these technologies mature will have its top comment on HN be "actually this is not 100% decentralized" it would be very helpful to get out ahead of this and have a framework for classifying how decentralized an app is. otherwise we may find ourselves in a situation where nobody migrates off of fully centralized apps to less centralized apps because they aren't "fully decentralized", which would be a shame.

skiman10 9y ago
I completely agree. Do you have any thoughts on a framework for classifying these 'decentralized' apps?
ucaetano 9y ago
One way to do it is to think about which parts are centralized vs. distributed vs. replicated: discovery, authentication, processing, storage, files, etc. Take bitcoin, for example: the ledger is centralized (there is a single monolithic one) but its storage is replicated (there isn't a single central storage location) and the processing is decentralized.
- mattnguyen 9y ago
  It doesn't follow that a "single monolithic ledger" means Bitcoin is decentralized. Since all (full) nodes carry a copy of the entire ledger and every participant in the network can propose transaction blocks to the blockchain, there isn't one party that controls writing to the ledger. Risk of centralization comes from mining pools that control 51% of the hashing power. [1] [1] https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    > It doesn't follow that a "single monolithic ledger" means Bitcoin is decentralized Oh, I never mentioned that. But the implication of the single, monolithic ledger is that it isn't partition-tolerant, if you don't have access to the ledger, you can't transact. IIRC, the lightning network kinda addresses that by allowing off-central-ledger transactions.

JepZ 9y ago

Lately, I see the trend of calling a lot of different things decentralized. In fact they all are, but at the same time they are very different. The classical example of a decentralized application was the email server. Everyone could host one and they all would communicate with each other (in theory). And with the thing called Federation for Nextcloud, XMPP or Matrix servers it is pretty much the same. When you host a server, you have complete control over it. But recently, we see all those blockchain enabled networks which store the data on some of its nodes. You have no idea where your data is stored (cloud like), just protected by by some encryption, which is considered safe as of today. I am a huge fan of decentralized services as we have known them for a while, yet I look very skeptical at the new services. I mean they have their own set of unique features (e.g. excellent up-time, scaling on a network level, etc.), but at the same time they lack properties of the old decentralized applications (e.g. 'your data on your hardware'). Anybody knows if there are more precise terms than just calling them all 'decentralized'?

djangowithme 9y ago

Is the 16mb unsplash photo on the landing page really necessary?

yydcool 9y ago

100% decentralized? Where is my data actually being stored? This depends on your choices. By default, your data is stored in a dedicated Microsoft Azure Blob. Isn't that centralized? Azure is a centralized service, but by encrypting your data, and because your private key is never exposed, Azure cannot access your data. With data replication, there is no single-point of failure and no entity has access to the content of your files.

brokenmachine 9y ago

Are there any plans for an Android App, or will it all be browser-based? Also where is the github/code located?

DavidNielsen 9y ago
Seconded, e.g. going to the signup page on my iPhone 5 just leads to a blank page. I suspect the same might be true for my iPad Air despite being on a current iOS release. A slightly better onboarding experience would be worth a lot, even if the answer is "thine device is unsupported and no plan to support it exists."

fiatjaf 9y ago

What is Blockstack, in clear English?

royglueck 9y ago

While this one works great, what i would really recommend is a solution for integrating it with email. I found that the integration of using Hop email alongside this worked wonders Check it out at https://gethop.com/ https://gethop.com/?