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>Then they feed this data into the computer and algorithmically generate "unbiased" results that prove they should be harassing minorities.... Depends on how y

by carlmr 9y ago

>Then they feed this data into the computer and algorithmically generate "unbiased" results that prove they should be harassing minorities.... Depends on how you use the data. If you learn success rates then it shouldn't depend on the absolute number of people searched. If you just feed raw data into machine learning algorithms, then nobody knows. E.g. you have 100 stop and frisks, 50 in one and 50 in antother neighborhood. Then you might see that you got 1 criminal in one and 10 in the other neighborhood. Then your algorithm will allocate more forces (shouldn't go below a minimum, otherwise no data) in the 20% criminal neighborhood than in the 2% criminal neighborhood. Obviously this will still lead to more searches in more criminal neighborhoods. But that's what you want. You want to use the police force as efficiently as possible to fight crime.

tyfon 9y ago
Unless the police enforce laws differently in different neighbourhoods. In one place you can get off with a warning for violating some traffic rule and in other places you can get arrested and hanged. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland
- carlmr 9y ago
  >Unless the police enforce laws differently in different neighbourhoods. On body cameras and separate evaluation (not by the police department, but by a separate agency with a separate budget).
  - ch4s3 9y ago
    >not by the police department, but by a separate agency with a separate budget Is that a thing that even happens? Most PDs I'm familiar with have a lot of control over their own cams. Even after getting caught using them to plant evidence, many still have some questionable cam practices.
runako 9y ago
> E.g. you have 100 stop and frisks, 50 in one and 50 in antother neighborhood. NB: stop and frisk isn't done in the "good" neighborhoods at all. There's not going to be any data about what happens when e.g. stopping and frisking white men in suits in lower Manhattan because it will never be done. The idea of being able to do controls hinges on something for which there is no political will. > Obviously this will still lead to more searches in more criminal neighborhoods. But that's what you want. I would think instead you want more searches in places where there is probable cause, you have gotten warrants, etc. How comfortable are we with the notion that people should be targeted on the basis of the neighborhoods they live in? Is this compatible with our guiding documents?
- carlmr 9y ago
  >NB: stop and frisk isn't done in the "good" neighborhoods at all. There's not going to be any data about what happens when e.g. stopping and frisking white men in suits in lower Manhattan because it will never be done. The idea of being able to do controls hinges on something for which there is no political will. I already addressed that caveat by forcing the algorithm to stop and frisk a minimum amount in the good neighbourhood. Like a minimum of 10% of frisks taking place in good neighbourhoods. >How comfortable are we with the notion that people should be targeted on the basis of the neighborhoods they live in? If I live in such a neighbourhood, I'd want more police presence. They will stop and frisk and do that to me, too. At the same time they will have the chance to stop some criminals that might kill or rob me and my family.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    I think a lot of times as engineers we imagine the tech divorced from the reality of the world it exists in. It would likely be politically untenable to start stopping and frisking Wall Street bankers.
    - hackerman12345 9y ago
      And the Wall Street Banker is unlikely to be on his way to a in-person mugging appointment. Rich people usually avoid petty or violent crimes.

by carlmr 9y ago

tyfon 9y ago

Unless the police enforce laws differently in different neighbourhoods. In one place you can get off with a warning for violating some traffic rule and in other places you can get arrested and hanged. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland

carlmr 9y ago
>Unless the police enforce laws differently in different neighbourhoods. On body cameras and separate evaluation (not by the police department, but by a separate agency with a separate budget).
- ch4s3 9y ago
  >not by the police department, but by a separate agency with a separate budget Is that a thing that even happens? Most PDs I'm familiar with have a lot of control over their own cams. Even after getting caught using them to plant evidence, many still have some questionable cam practices.

runako 9y ago

> E.g. you have 100 stop and frisks, 50 in one and 50 in antother neighborhood. NB: stop and frisk isn't done in the "good" neighborhoods at all. There's not going to be any data about what happens when e.g. stopping and frisking white men in suits in lower Manhattan because it will never be done. The idea of being able to do controls hinges on something for which there is no political will. > Obviously this will still lead to more searches in more criminal neighborhoods. But that's what you want. I would think instead you want more searches in places where there is probable cause, you have gotten warrants, etc. How comfortable are we with the notion that people should be targeted on the basis of the neighborhoods they live in? Is this compatible with our guiding documents?

carlmr 9y ago
>NB: stop and frisk isn't done in the "good" neighborhoods at all. There's not going to be any data about what happens when e.g. stopping and frisking white men in suits in lower Manhattan because it will never be done. The idea of being able to do controls hinges on something for which there is no political will. I already addressed that caveat by forcing the algorithm to stop and frisk a minimum amount in the good neighbourhood. Like a minimum of 10% of frisks taking place in good neighbourhoods. >How comfortable are we with the notion that people should be targeted on the basis of the neighborhoods they live in? If I live in such a neighbourhood, I'd want more police presence. They will stop and frisk and do that to me, too. At the same time they will have the chance to stop some criminals that might kill or rob me and my family.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  I think a lot of times as engineers we imagine the tech divorced from the reality of the world it exists in. It would likely be politically untenable to start stopping and frisking Wall Street bankers.
  - hackerman12345 9y ago
    And the Wall Street Banker is unlikely to be on his way to a in-person mugging appointment. Rich people usually avoid petty or violent crimes.