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The fact that Unix tools have trouble with spaces in filenames is absolutely a problem with Unix. If the Unix ecosystem had better support for this, then it wou

The fact that Unix tools have trouble with spaces in filenames is absolutely a problem with Unix. If the Unix ecosystem had better support for this, then it wouldn't be a problem.

v_lisivka 9y ago
Unix tools have no trouble with space in file names. "-", "\0", "\n" and bad Unicode are troublesome. Lazy programmers can forget to put quotes around variables in shell scripts, but it's not a problem of the tool.
- eigengrau 9y ago
  Additionally, not every shell expands variables the way Bourne-based shells do.
eigengrau 9y ago
I don’t quite see how Unix tools have trouble with spaces in filenames. Could you detail some cases where the space handling is not due to the shell, as opposed to the program being invoked?
- mnarayan01 9y ago
  There's this program called make...
  - eigengrau 9y ago
    My question was aimed at ops generic statement. As for Make, it originally wasn’t clear to me where the issue was supposed to lie. Lines in rule bodies are handed off to the shell, and that whitespace in rule dependencies need escaping didn’t seem surprising since it’s a list (though it’s probably a bug that whitespace in target names must be escaped, since it’s just one token that ends in a colon). But I see now that the expansion of list-valued automatic variables is probably a real Make-endemic issue.
    - mnarayan01 9y ago
      > though it’s probably a bug that whitespace in target names must be escaped, since it’s just one token that ends in a colon It's perfectly fine for a rule to have multiple targets, e.g. output.txt error.txt: source build source > output.txt 2> error.txt
      - eigengrau 9y ago
        Interesting! So in that case one could defend the need for escaped whitespace. Still leaves automatic variables, I guess.
        mnarayan01 9y ago
        Well it could be rewritten to use 0x1f (i.e. unit separator) to separate items. I mean it already has significant tabs. Though invariably people would be like "How is it acceptable for make to not support filenames which contain unit separators? It's 2020 guys, get with the program!"

The fact that Unix tools have trouble with spaces in filenames is absolutely a problem with Unix. If the Unix ecosystem had better support for this, then it wouldn't be a problem.

v_lisivka 9y ago

Unix tools have no trouble with space in file names. "-", "\0", "\n" and bad Unicode are troublesome. Lazy programmers can forget to put quotes around variables in shell scripts, but it's not a problem of the tool.

eigengrau 9y ago
Additionally, not every shell expands variables the way Bourne-based shells do.

eigengrau 9y ago

I don’t quite see how Unix tools have trouble with spaces in filenames. Could you detail some cases where the space handling is not due to the shell, as opposed to the program being invoked?

mnarayan01 9y ago
There's this program called make...
- eigengrau 9y ago
  My question was aimed at ops generic statement. As for Make, it originally wasn’t clear to me where the issue was supposed to lie. Lines in rule bodies are handed off to the shell, and that whitespace in rule dependencies need escaping didn’t seem surprising since it’s a list (though it’s probably a bug that whitespace in target names must be escaped, since it’s just one token that ends in a colon). But I see now that the expansion of list-valued automatic variables is probably a real Make-endemic issue.
  - mnarayan01 9y ago
    > though it’s probably a bug that whitespace in target names must be escaped, since it’s just one token that ends in a colon It's perfectly fine for a rule to have multiple targets, e.g. output.txt error.txt: source build source > output.txt 2> error.txt
    - eigengrau 9y ago
      Interesting! So in that case one could defend the need for escaped whitespace. Still leaves automatic variables, I guess.
      - mnarayan01 9y ago
        Well it could be rewritten to use 0x1f (i.e. unit separator) to separate items. I mean it already has significant tabs. Though invariably people would be like "How is it acceptable for make to not support filenames which contain unit separators? It's 2020 guys, get with the program!"