4 ms·

These sorts of tools are definitely useful, especially for those that otherwise wouldn't have access to music instruction. But there would be huge pieces missin

These sorts of tools are definitely useful, especially for those that otherwise wouldn't have access to music instruction. But there would be huge pieces missing: teaching musicianship (perfect accuracy is a bad thing), finding repertoire to engage the student, arranging performance opportunities... Basically, I think these tools replace bad piano teachers. Of course, there are a lot of bad piano teachers out there (a large percentage of all teachers, I'm sure), so I'm not saying that this sort of thing doesn't have value in increasing access. Disclaimer: I might be a bit biased, since I have a music degree, have taken ~15 years of piano/organ lessons, and am also married to a piano teacher.

_raoulcousins 9y ago
Serious question: what does it mean that perfect accuracy is a bad thing? I'm not a pianist and I'm not a professional, but I'm an amateur oboist (20 years in student/amateur orchestras). I think of technical accuracy as necessary but not sufficient for playing music. When I really have a piece down technically I can focus 100% on musicality, but I want the technical parts down solid. Of course as I'm practicing, I am deliberate at working on both the technique and playing expressively. If I'm not deliberate about it, it's too easy to just focus on nailing the technique - it's a lot easier than the musicality.
- wickawic 9y ago
  For a simple example, any music that “grooves” (makes you want to tap your feet) tends to not be perfectly sub-divided into 4 beats. Different players in the same band may be intentionally (and/or subconsciously) hitting their notes on different parts of the beat to increase this effect. In this type of scenario there really isn’t any substitution for practice and “feel”, a metronome would never get you there. In terms of piano, GP may have been referring to rubato, or holding notes for longer/shorter than notated for artistic effect.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    Pop and jazz have "the pocket", which is where the groove clicks into maximum effectiveness. Classical has phrasing. IMO it's the same phenomenon. It's one of the most effective ways to add expression, and it's mostly taught aurally. There's very little in books for beginners about it. If you're taught to play metronomically, you may never understand why it matters. Someone who is naturally musical will feel it without being told about it, but may still struggle to bring it out of their playing.
  - _raoulcousins 9y ago
    I see. I guess it was just me misinterpreting "perfect". To me it's obviously not perfect to play like a robot.
    - simplify 9y ago
      Agree, "perfect accuracy" was a bad choice of words. When learning a new song it's best to "never play a wrong note" – to make sure you play each note with 100% accuracy, no matter how long it takes you. This trains your muscle memory much more efficiently than playing less than perfect and undoing the muscle-memory-learned mistakes as you go along.
  - moltar 9y ago
    It’s called “swing”, right?
    - 7Z7 9y ago
      In some contexts, yes.
  - cocoablazing 9y ago
    Roger Linn on groove: https://www.attackmagazine.com/features/interview/roger-linn-swing-groove-magic-mpc-timing/ https://www.attackmagazine.com/features/interview/roger-linn...
trendia 9y ago
Add in that technology can measure certain things, like whether you hit the right notes, but can't measure other things, like whether: 1. your posture is terrible (shoulders, arms, etc.) 2. you are arching / lowering your wrists 3. you are humming to yourself while playing ala keith jarrett 4. you are using the correct fingerings 5. you are playing in a way that can be sustainable for hours a day (e.g. you can play poorly for 1 hour but not for 40 hours / week)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

_raoulcousins 9y ago

Serious question: what does it mean that perfect accuracy is a bad thing? I'm not a pianist and I'm not a professional, but I'm an amateur oboist (20 years in student/amateur orchestras). I think of technical accuracy as necessary but not sufficient for playing music. When I really have a piece down technically I can focus 100% on musicality, but I want the technical parts down solid. Of course as I'm practicing, I am deliberate at working on both the technique and playing expressively. If I'm not deliberate about it, it's too easy to just focus on nailing the technique - it's a lot easier than the musicality.

wickawic 9y ago
For a simple example, any music that “grooves” (makes you want to tap your feet) tends to not be perfectly sub-divided into 4 beats. Different players in the same band may be intentionally (and/or subconsciously) hitting their notes on different parts of the beat to increase this effect. In this type of scenario there really isn’t any substitution for practice and “feel”, a metronome would never get you there. In terms of piano, GP may have been referring to rubato, or holding notes for longer/shorter than notated for artistic effect.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  Pop and jazz have "the pocket", which is where the groove clicks into maximum effectiveness. Classical has phrasing. IMO it's the same phenomenon. It's one of the most effective ways to add expression, and it's mostly taught aurally. There's very little in books for beginners about it. If you're taught to play metronomically, you may never understand why it matters. Someone who is naturally musical will feel it without being told about it, but may still struggle to bring it out of their playing.
- _raoulcousins 9y ago
  I see. I guess it was just me misinterpreting "perfect". To me it's obviously not perfect to play like a robot.
  - simplify 9y ago
    Agree, "perfect accuracy" was a bad choice of words. When learning a new song it's best to "never play a wrong note" – to make sure you play each note with 100% accuracy, no matter how long it takes you. This trains your muscle memory much more efficiently than playing less than perfect and undoing the muscle-memory-learned mistakes as you go along.
- moltar 9y ago
  It’s called “swing”, right?
  - 7Z7 9y ago
    In some contexts, yes.
- cocoablazing 9y ago
  Roger Linn on groove: https://www.attackmagazine.com/features/interview/roger-linn-swing-groove-magic-mpc-timing/ https://www.attackmagazine.com/features/interview/roger-linn...

trendia 9y ago

Add in that technology can measure certain things, like whether you hit the right notes, but can't measure other things, like whether: 1. your posture is terrible (shoulders, arms, etc.) 2. you are arching / lowering your wrists 3. you are humming to yourself while playing ala keith jarrett 4. you are using the correct fingerings 5. you are playing in a way that can be sustainable for hours a day (e.g. you can play poorly for 1 hour but not for 40 hours / week)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]