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Native Texan here. I and many other Texans I know welcome newcomers with open arms. We all just have one message though: Please do not turn Texas into the pla

Native Texan here. I and many other Texans I know welcome newcomers with open arms. We all just have one message though: Please do not turn Texas into the places y'all are leaving. There's a reason y'all are leaving after all. EDIT: Newcomers: We generally don't care what anyone does or thinks, we only care when people try to force us to conform to their beliefs, including what to do with our money, eg) raising taxes. Wow, the back-and-forth on upvotes/downvotes is crazy. Sorry, didn't mean for this to be controverisal.

antimatter 9y ago
This is my fear as well. As a Californian who's looking to move to Texas at some point in the future, I really hope the people leaving aren't taking "California values" to Texas with them.
- whatshisface 9y ago
  One of the greatest strengths of the Texas legislature is that almost everything is written in to the constitution, thereby being almost impossible to change. So for this reason the (proven disastrous) legal and business theories that have messed up housing costs in California would have a very hard time taking root here.
  - adrianratnapala 9y ago
    Of course when the bad ideas bear their dark fruit, they will be hard to change too. But more seriously can you expand more on this "almost everything is written into the constitution"? Is this a back-door way of getting Swiss-style direct democracy. Skimming wikipedia it seems that amedments are passed by a referendum approving a legislative proposal (and this processes has happened hundreds of times). if this is the only practical way of creating legislation, then you basically have the people as a third house of the legislature.
    - whatshisface 9y ago
      Amendments must win two-thirds of the legislature and a simple majority of the public. In some sense, it's a swiss-style democracy and-ed to one of the most conservatively designed legislatures ever implemented. Regular laws don't have to pass the same gauntlet, but because the constitution is so expansive nearly every new law has to get it amended to prevent a contradiction. https://www.laits.utexas.edu/txp_media/html/cons/0405.html https://www.laits.utexas.edu/txp_media/html/cons/0405.html
  - AFNobody 9y ago
    > One of the greatest strengths of the Texas legislature is that almost everything is written in to the constitution, thereby being almost impossible to change. So for this reason the (proven disastrous) legal and business theories that have messed up housing costs in California would have a very hard time taking root here. Prop 13 is a constitutional amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... CA is virtually identical to Texas in the sense it has an extensive constitution that is almost impossible to change. So, be careful what you wish for.
    - gwright 9y ago
      I think Alabama wins this contest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Alabama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Alabama > At 310,296 words,[1] the document is 12 times longer than the average state constitution, 44 times longer than the U.S. Constitution, and is the longest[2] and most amended[3] constitution still operative anywhere in the world.
- Hextinium 9y ago
  As someone from Dallas here, the people from California that move here never fully adapt but they do conform to Texas after a year or two. That being said there are places that are much more "California like" than Texan like popping up on occasion.
  - inetknght 9y ago
    My parents came to Houston, Texas from California because of job opportunities. Even after 15 years they still whine very loudly about Texas policies and want to move back to California. Conform? Barely. Fully adapt? Hell no. I hope my parents are the exception though, for Texas' sake. This place is way better than California (I visit plenty of family who still live there) and I would hate for it to be gutted in such fashion.
  - Diederich 9y ago
    > the people from California that move here never fully adapt I wonder if you can share what that looks like? I've lived in California most of my life, but I lived in Georgia, Arkansas, Mississppi and Missouri for 16 years.
staunch 9y ago
That's not how this works. You're not a "native Texan" but one of millions of American citizens born in the state of Texas. Texas is no more yours than any other citizen's. There are no second class citizens in the US. If you move to New York, you become a New Yorker. If you move to Texas, you become a Texan. Just like your parents or grandparents did. This is one reason America society is great. You have no right to tell anyone where or how to live. If you don't like Texas because other people are moving there, you're free to leave. Welcome to a free country! P.S. If you don't like California things, then leave this web site, throw away your computer, smartphone, and most of your modern possessions, also all the crap Hollywood makes.
- djschnei 9y ago
  They were talking about fiscal policy. I.e "don't leave California, then push for the same policies here". But of course, you already knew that.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - staunch 9y ago
    No, it was not at all clear and still isn't, even after the comment has been edited. If Californians want to move to Texas and bring their fiscal ideas with them, tough luck! You get to decide where and how you live. I get to decide where and how I live. This is freedom.
    - Casseres 9y ago
      > If Californians want to move to Texas and bring their fiscal ideas with them, tough luck! > You get to decide where and how you live. I get to decide where and how I live. This is freedom. And I also get to decide to ask you not to do something, just as you get to decide on whether or not to vote for it. Freedom works both ways, not just only for one group. I hope I made my edit more clear, sorry about that.
IronWolve 9y ago
On the east side of Washington in Spokane, the houses are going up due to the influx of Californians. Average price was around 120k, now you can see houses in the 300k for entry level with basic kitchens. Also, lots of modern brew pubs are popping up that easily charge Seattle prices for food and beer. (Way too expensive for locals) Had a co-worker who's family moved up from California and bought a 600k house on 10 acres. The price per acre has been going up like crazy, use to be 2-3K per acre in the rural areas,its upto 10K+ now, even 20K, for forest land in the sticks, when 5 acre lots going for 100k, thats nuts, no well or power... Crazy, since the local wages don't even support those price.
- davidw 9y ago
  Bend, Oregon has been that way for a while. Who wants to do a startup that finds and invests in the 'next places'? Some days I'm hopeful we can fix things, and others I think maybe we should just try and sell people on the 'new hotness' and make a buck from it.
  - scruple 9y ago
    I joked about doing this back in 2013. I was watching Portland, OR and Bend, OR real estate on it's steady climb back when homes in both of those cities were what I'd consider/call affordable. I know of a few "next places" but I try to hold them close to the chest just in case I convince my wife to finally leave California. My point is that it's quite disheartening seeing the so-called value of land and homes rise at such high rates in basically _every_ city and town west of the Rockies.
hindsightbias 9y ago
Ex-native here. TX isn't anything like what it was before the Bible Belt migrated in and took over the suburbs/electorate. Too bad Texas is too progressive to have a Prop 13 - I can't go back anywhere in TX w/o people whinging about their property taxes or toll road fees.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Prop 13 is what ruined California. Not only did it institute rent control for property owners with all its associated problems, but it also tied the hands of legislators for funding government programs, directly leading to the initiative-based rigid monstrosity of a state budget California suffers from today.
  - prostoalex 9y ago
    Economic growth in California happens in places with a lot of new construction and a robust real estate market, where each real estate transaction resets the assessment price. In some areas of California the prices still haven't recovered to the pre-housing crash levels. You'd only get significant advantage from Prop 13 if you bought during the 80s and held. While there are some places like that (Berkeley?) the state is hardly over-populated by elderly people clinging to their 40+ year old housing.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      You ignored the main detrimental effects of Prop 13 I described in my comment and addressed only the rent control aspect.
      - prostoalex 9y ago
        How did it tie the hands of the legislators?
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
dnomad 9y ago
I suspect Texas will wish it had California's problems in a decade. California is experiencing a brain gain [1] as the best and the brightest relocate to the state en mass. Texas is meanwhile experiencing a brain drain by experting college educated and college-seeking citizens en masse. A quick look at industries in decline (oil, coal, meat) and industries on the rise (automotive, tech, healthcare) does not suggest that Texas is the place to be or that these people leaving for Texas are doing so voluntarily. [1] http://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-brain-gain/ http://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-brain-gain/
- DamnYuppie 9y ago
  Texas is growing, lots of large companies leaving other states to move there. So to say their is a large brain drain is disingenuous. All of those companies you listed as "on the rise" are relocating to Texas, a few examples: State Farm, Toyota, and soon Amazon HQ2(Amazon hates taxes). This is a small sampling, there are many more companies moving to Texas all the time.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

antimatter 9y ago

This is my fear as well. As a Californian who's looking to move to Texas at some point in the future, I really hope the people leaving aren't taking "California values" to Texas with them.

whatshisface 9y ago
One of the greatest strengths of the Texas legislature is that almost everything is written in to the constitution, thereby being almost impossible to change. So for this reason the (proven disastrous) legal and business theories that have messed up housing costs in California would have a very hard time taking root here.
- adrianratnapala 9y ago
  Of course when the bad ideas bear their dark fruit, they will be hard to change too. But more seriously can you expand more on this "almost everything is written into the constitution"? Is this a back-door way of getting Swiss-style direct democracy. Skimming wikipedia it seems that amedments are passed by a referendum approving a legislative proposal (and this processes has happened hundreds of times). if this is the only practical way of creating legislation, then you basically have the people as a third house of the legislature.
  - whatshisface 9y ago
    Amendments must win two-thirds of the legislature and a simple majority of the public. In some sense, it's a swiss-style democracy and-ed to one of the most conservatively designed legislatures ever implemented. Regular laws don't have to pass the same gauntlet, but because the constitution is so expansive nearly every new law has to get it amended to prevent a contradiction. https://www.laits.utexas.edu/txp_media/html/cons/0405.html https://www.laits.utexas.edu/txp_media/html/cons/0405.html
- AFNobody 9y ago
  > One of the greatest strengths of the Texas legislature is that almost everything is written in to the constitution, thereby being almost impossible to change. So for this reason the (proven disastrous) legal and business theories that have messed up housing costs in California would have a very hard time taking root here. Prop 13 is a constitutional amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... CA is virtually identical to Texas in the sense it has an extensive constitution that is almost impossible to change. So, be careful what you wish for.
  - gwright 9y ago
    I think Alabama wins this contest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Alabama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Alabama > At 310,296 words,[1] the document is 12 times longer than the average state constitution, 44 times longer than the U.S. Constitution, and is the longest[2] and most amended[3] constitution still operative anywhere in the world.
Hextinium 9y ago
As someone from Dallas here, the people from California that move here never fully adapt but they do conform to Texas after a year or two. That being said there are places that are much more "California like" than Texan like popping up on occasion.
- inetknght 9y ago
  My parents came to Houston, Texas from California because of job opportunities. Even after 15 years they still whine very loudly about Texas policies and want to move back to California. Conform? Barely. Fully adapt? Hell no. I hope my parents are the exception though, for Texas' sake. This place is way better than California (I visit plenty of family who still live there) and I would hate for it to be gutted in such fashion.
- Diederich 9y ago
  > the people from California that move here never fully adapt I wonder if you can share what that looks like? I've lived in California most of my life, but I lived in Georgia, Arkansas, Mississppi and Missouri for 16 years.

staunch 9y ago

That's not how this works. You're not a "native Texan" but one of millions of American citizens born in the state of Texas. Texas is no more yours than any other citizen's. There are no second class citizens in the US. If you move to New York, you become a New Yorker. If you move to Texas, you become a Texan. Just like your parents or grandparents did. This is one reason America society is great. You have no right to tell anyone where or how to live. If you don't like Texas because other people are moving there, you're free to leave. Welcome to a free country! P.S. If you don't like California things, then leave this web site, throw away your computer, smartphone, and most of your modern possessions, also all the crap Hollywood makes.

djschnei 9y ago
They were talking about fiscal policy. I.e "don't leave California, then push for the same policies here". But of course, you already knew that.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- staunch 9y ago
  No, it was not at all clear and still isn't, even after the comment has been edited. If Californians want to move to Texas and bring their fiscal ideas with them, tough luck! You get to decide where and how you live. I get to decide where and how I live. This is freedom.
  - Casseres 9y ago
    > If Californians want to move to Texas and bring their fiscal ideas with them, tough luck! > You get to decide where and how you live. I get to decide where and how I live. This is freedom. And I also get to decide to ask you not to do something, just as you get to decide on whether or not to vote for it. Freedom works both ways, not just only for one group. I hope I made my edit more clear, sorry about that.

IronWolve 9y ago

On the east side of Washington in Spokane, the houses are going up due to the influx of Californians. Average price was around 120k, now you can see houses in the 300k for entry level with basic kitchens. Also, lots of modern brew pubs are popping up that easily charge Seattle prices for food and beer. (Way too expensive for locals) Had a co-worker who's family moved up from California and bought a 600k house on 10 acres. The price per acre has been going up like crazy, use to be 2-3K per acre in the rural areas,its upto 10K+ now, even 20K, for forest land in the sticks, when 5 acre lots going for 100k, thats nuts, no well or power... Crazy, since the local wages don't even support those price.

davidw 9y ago
Bend, Oregon has been that way for a while. Who wants to do a startup that finds and invests in the 'next places'? Some days I'm hopeful we can fix things, and others I think maybe we should just try and sell people on the 'new hotness' and make a buck from it.
- scruple 9y ago
  I joked about doing this back in 2013. I was watching Portland, OR and Bend, OR real estate on it's steady climb back when homes in both of those cities were what I'd consider/call affordable. I know of a few "next places" but I try to hold them close to the chest just in case I convince my wife to finally leave California. My point is that it's quite disheartening seeing the so-called value of land and homes rise at such high rates in basically _every_ city and town west of the Rockies.

hindsightbias 9y ago

Ex-native here. TX isn't anything like what it was before the Bible Belt migrated in and took over the suburbs/electorate. Too bad Texas is too progressive to have a Prop 13 - I can't go back anywhere in TX w/o people whinging about their property taxes or toll road fees.

lern_too_spel 9y ago
Prop 13 is what ruined California. Not only did it institute rent control for property owners with all its associated problems, but it also tied the hands of legislators for funding government programs, directly leading to the initiative-based rigid monstrosity of a state budget California suffers from today.
- prostoalex 9y ago
  Economic growth in California happens in places with a lot of new construction and a robust real estate market, where each real estate transaction resets the assessment price. In some areas of California the prices still haven't recovered to the pre-housing crash levels. You'd only get significant advantage from Prop 13 if you bought during the 80s and held. While there are some places like that (Berkeley?) the state is hardly over-populated by elderly people clinging to their 40+ year old housing.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    You ignored the main detrimental effects of Prop 13 I described in my comment and addressed only the rent control aspect.
    - prostoalex 9y ago
      How did it tie the hands of the legislators?
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago

dnomad 9y ago

I suspect Texas will wish it had California's problems in a decade. California is experiencing a brain gain [1] as the best and the brightest relocate to the state en mass. Texas is meanwhile experiencing a brain drain by experting college educated and college-seeking citizens en masse. A quick look at industries in decline (oil, coal, meat) and industries on the rise (automotive, tech, healthcare) does not suggest that Texas is the place to be or that these people leaving for Texas are doing so voluntarily. [1] http://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-brain-gain/ http://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-brain-gain/

DamnYuppie 9y ago
Texas is growing, lots of large companies leaving other states to move there. So to say their is a large brain drain is disingenuous. All of those companies you listed as "on the rise" are relocating to Texas, a few examples: State Farm, Toyota, and soon Amazon HQ2(Amazon hates taxes). This is a small sampling, there are many more companies moving to Texas all the time.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]