5 ms·

Good luck to EU trying to enforce it against JoeSchmoeLLC from PA

by notyourday 9y ago

77pt77 9y ago
What if the owner is a citizen of a EU country? I'm genuinely curious.
- notyourday 9y ago
  Maybe they can do that, but that would require piercing corporate veil first which is costly. JoeSchmoeLLC is probably judgement proof. Any attempt to force it to comply would cost a boat load of money. However, it is a lot more likely that the LLC is owned by those with no nexus to Europe it is extremely unlikely that EU can do anything to punish this company. Hell 99% of web forums have European users. Maybe it will have teeth against Google/Facebook/Tinder/Match/etc because those companies actually have assets in Europe but it won't be effective against companies with no nexus.
wila 9y ago
Not really a problem for EU if JoeSchmoeLLC is really treating this as not a law for them. US and pretty much every country in the EU have excellent extradition agreements. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradit...
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Do you have any examples of the US extraditing anyone to Europe for actions not considered criminal in the United States.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  Extradition for what? Violating EU law? I do that almost every second of every day. PA is not subject to EU law whatsoever.
  - 77pt77 9y ago
    It's even stranger than that. These laws have to be implemented in each of the member countries, so you'd be violating the law of one of those countries.
- Bizarro 9y ago
  It's better for you to be honest in your comments since you know nobody will ever be extradited for this law.
rmc 9y ago
It's HipNewStartupLLC in Delaware that's got more to worry about. VCs will want growth, and at the start things go up. Then they want to expand to the EU, and they've hit the road block.
xxs 9y ago
The company from PA (USA) needs a EU VAT number to operate in the EU... The VAT registration would be revoked in the specific member state where it was issued. If there is a tax agreement between a specific member state (EU) and the US, IRS can show interest in Joe. If there are like a thousand sales in a specific member state (the taxation is not EU wide global), no one will show interested, so if Joe is small - it's very likely Joe is safe. Operating w/o the VAT could also spring money laundering interests -- the institutions concerned with anti-money-laundering cases tend to have rather long reach.
- notyourday 9y ago
  No, it does not. A company in PA, USA does not give two cents about EU VAT. It charges EU customers in the US and provides services in the US and tells EU to shove it. Actually, it does not even do that. It simply ignores everything that EU does.
  - xxs 9y ago
    Like I've said if you are small enough to avoid any interest, it's ok - but selling electronic services to EU residents without VAT in the EU is not legal. Overall VAT is taxation on the consumption, the consumption is within the EU member state, the state receives the tax. Summary: When US companies encounter European VAT: When doing business in the territory of the EU a company will deal with VAT: when selling something, the company will have to charge the customer with VAT... [0] Also: The EU’s VAT law considers everything that is not a good (generally a tangible property) as a service. Services can include everything from the licensing for intellectual property to downloadable software to consulting – to name but a few examples. The VAT requirements for services depend on the final customer U.S. Foreign Commercial Services for U.S. Companies [1], [2] [0]: https://www.rsm.global/insights/tax-news/europe-how-european-vat-impacts-us-companies https://www.rsm.global/insights/tax-news/europe-how-european... [1]: https://2016.export.gov/europeanunion/eg_eu_030910.asp https://2016.export.gov/europeanunion/eg_eu_030910.asp [2]: https://www.export.gov/article?id=European-Union-How-the-EU-s-Value-Added-Tax-VAT-Impacts-U-S-Exports-2016 https://www.export.gov/article?id=European-Union-How-the-EU-...

Good luck to EU trying to enforce it against JoeSchmoeLLC from PA

77pt77 9y ago

What if the owner is a citizen of a EU country? I'm genuinely curious.

notyourday 9y ago
Maybe they can do that, but that would require piercing corporate veil first which is costly. JoeSchmoeLLC is probably judgement proof. Any attempt to force it to comply would cost a boat load of money. However, it is a lot more likely that the LLC is owned by those with no nexus to Europe it is extremely unlikely that EU can do anything to punish this company. Hell 99% of web forums have European users. Maybe it will have teeth against Google/Facebook/Tinder/Match/etc because those companies actually have assets in Europe but it won't be effective against companies with no nexus.

wila 9y ago

Not really a problem for EU if JoeSchmoeLLC is really treating this as not a law for them. US and pretty much every country in the EU have excellent extradition agreements. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradit...

michaelmrose 9y ago
Do you have any examples of the US extraditing anyone to Europe for actions not considered criminal in the United States.
jakeogh 9y ago
Extradition for what? Violating EU law? I do that almost every second of every day. PA is not subject to EU law whatsoever.
- 77pt77 9y ago
  It's even stranger than that. These laws have to be implemented in each of the member countries, so you'd be violating the law of one of those countries.
Bizarro 9y ago
It's better for you to be honest in your comments since you know nobody will ever be extradited for this law.

rmc 9y ago

It's HipNewStartupLLC in Delaware that's got more to worry about. VCs will want growth, and at the start things go up. Then they want to expand to the EU, and they've hit the road block.

xxs 9y ago

The company from PA (USA) needs a EU VAT number to operate in the EU... The VAT registration would be revoked in the specific member state where it was issued. If there is a tax agreement between a specific member state (EU) and the US, IRS can show interest in Joe. If there are like a thousand sales in a specific member state (the taxation is not EU wide global), no one will show interested, so if Joe is small - it's very likely Joe is safe. Operating w/o the VAT could also spring money laundering interests -- the institutions concerned with anti-money-laundering cases tend to have rather long reach.

notyourday 9y ago
No, it does not. A company in PA, USA does not give two cents about EU VAT. It charges EU customers in the US and provides services in the US and tells EU to shove it. Actually, it does not even do that. It simply ignores everything that EU does.
- xxs 9y ago
  Like I've said if you are small enough to avoid any interest, it's ok - but selling electronic services to EU residents without VAT in the EU is not legal. Overall VAT is taxation on the consumption, the consumption is within the EU member state, the state receives the tax. Summary: When US companies encounter European VAT: When doing business in the territory of the EU a company will deal with VAT: when selling something, the company will have to charge the customer with VAT... [0] Also: The EU’s VAT law considers everything that is not a good (generally a tangible property) as a service. Services can include everything from the licensing for intellectual property to downloadable software to consulting – to name but a few examples. The VAT requirements for services depend on the final customer U.S. Foreign Commercial Services for U.S. Companies [1], [2] [0]: https://www.rsm.global/insights/tax-news/europe-how-european-vat-impacts-us-companies https://www.rsm.global/insights/tax-news/europe-how-european... [1]: https://2016.export.gov/europeanunion/eg_eu_030910.asp https://2016.export.gov/europeanunion/eg_eu_030910.asp [2]: https://www.export.gov/article?id=European-Union-How-the-EU-s-Value-Added-Tax-VAT-Impacts-U-S-Exports-2016 https://www.export.gov/article?id=European-Union-How-the-EU-...