6 ms·

It might be that the EU willingly rejects certain business. Maybe, if you aren't GDPR compliant, you are not wanted by the EU.

by madez 9y ago

Silhouette 9y ago
That would be a plausible theory if the EU even realised that many thousands of these smaller businesses exist, but as we learned with the VAT mess, they literally didn't.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Yes, the VAT mess definitely does not deserve the beauty prize but with the MOSS it is actually manageable. I've done it for a couple of years and as long as your IPSP cooperates it shouldn't be more than 15 minutes of work per quarter.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    I've done it for a couple of years and as long as your IPSP cooperates it shouldn't be more than 15 minutes of work per quarter. That might be true if you're lucky enough to have a single third-party payment service that collects all of your revenues including administering the VAT parts for you. Unfortunately, there are many reasons why that might not be the case or even possible. Even if you do use one of those services, it can't magically cope with all the edge cases any more than you or I can, and of course they tend to take an extra cut out of your revenue. For everyone who needs to manage their taxes a bit closer to home, it takes longer than your suggested time just to check the rates regularly in case some member state decided to increase them with about a week's notice again. There's not really any good answer to VAT MOSS, there are just more inconvenient and/or expensive and slightly less inconvenient and/or expensive.
    - fyfy18 9y ago
      At least in the UK, HMRC email me whenever rates in a member country change, and they publish them online too: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vat-information-sheets https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vat-information-sh...
      - Silhouette 9y ago
        We've had some emails from them as well, but we still assume it's our responsibility to check the rates weekly, based on the fact that at least one rate change has come into effect with little more notice than that and nobody (including HMRC) actively notified us first. Publishing the rates is certainly better than not publishing them, but unless that information is updated in close to real time so it picks up those short-notice changes and unless it's supplied in a machine-readable format so that you can use it as a basis for automatically calculating correct VAT at the time of sale, it's of limited value for anything other than spotting mistakes retrospectively.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
It's crazy how many businesses think they're so awesome that no market would ever think they're better off without them.
- aeorgnoieang 9y ago
  Why is that crazy? Why is it not crazy that the EU thinks it's so awesome that no business would ever think it's better off without them?
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    Because most of the people complaining are tiny businesses, and the EU is the single biggest market out there.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      Most businesses are tiny businesses. In the UK, 96% of all businesses are microbusinesses (classed as having 0-9 employees) and 99.9% of all businesses are SMEs (classes as having up to 250 employees). Governments tend to obsess about big businesses, and the EU more than most. However, in the entire UK, there are only about seven thousand large businesses. Smaller businesses collectively contribute the majority of almost every important economic metric (jobs, tax revenues, etc.). And of course, even the successful large businesses used to be successful smaller businesses. Given that heavyweight EU regulations disproportionately affect those smaller businesses, because their compliance costs are relatively high, and given that excessive regulation makes it harder or in some cases impractical for businesses to trade within the EU, it is kind of crazy that the EU keeps putting these barriers up. Its own economic fortunes and those of its member states fundamentally depend on maintaining a good environment for smaller businesses to start and grow. Things rarely end well for economies that fail to do so.

It might be that the EU willingly rejects certain business. Maybe, if you aren't GDPR compliant, you are not wanted by the EU.

by madez 9y ago

It might be that the EU willingly rejects certain business. Maybe, if you aren't GDPR compliant, you are not wanted by the EU.

Silhouette 9y ago

That would be a plausible theory if the EU even realised that many thousands of these smaller businesses exist, but as we learned with the VAT mess, they literally didn't.

jacquesm 9y ago
Yes, the VAT mess definitely does not deserve the beauty prize but with the MOSS it is actually manageable. I've done it for a couple of years and as long as your IPSP cooperates it shouldn't be more than 15 minutes of work per quarter.
- Silhouette 9y ago
  I've done it for a couple of years and as long as your IPSP cooperates it shouldn't be more than 15 minutes of work per quarter. That might be true if you're lucky enough to have a single third-party payment service that collects all of your revenues including administering the VAT parts for you. Unfortunately, there are many reasons why that might not be the case or even possible. Even if you do use one of those services, it can't magically cope with all the edge cases any more than you or I can, and of course they tend to take an extra cut out of your revenue. For everyone who needs to manage their taxes a bit closer to home, it takes longer than your suggested time just to check the rates regularly in case some member state decided to increase them with about a week's notice again. There's not really any good answer to VAT MOSS, there are just more inconvenient and/or expensive and slightly less inconvenient and/or expensive.
  - fyfy18 9y ago
    At least in the UK, HMRC email me whenever rates in a member country change, and they publish them online too: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vat-information-sheets https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vat-information-sh...
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      We've had some emails from them as well, but we still assume it's our responsibility to check the rates weekly, based on the fact that at least one rate change has come into effect with little more notice than that and nobody (including HMRC) actively notified us first. Publishing the rates is certainly better than not publishing them, but unless that information is updated in close to real time so it picks up those short-notice changes and unless it's supplied in a machine-readable format so that you can use it as a basis for automatically calculating correct VAT at the time of sale, it's of limited value for anything other than spotting mistakes retrospectively.

s73v3r_ 9y ago

It's crazy how many businesses think they're so awesome that no market would ever think they're better off without them.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago
Why is that crazy? Why is it not crazy that the EU thinks it's so awesome that no business would ever think it's better off without them?
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Because most of the people complaining are tiny businesses, and the EU is the single biggest market out there.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    Most businesses are tiny businesses. In the UK, 96% of all businesses are microbusinesses (classed as having 0-9 employees) and 99.9% of all businesses are SMEs (classes as having up to 250 employees). Governments tend to obsess about big businesses, and the EU more than most. However, in the entire UK, there are only about seven thousand large businesses. Smaller businesses collectively contribute the majority of almost every important economic metric (jobs, tax revenues, etc.). And of course, even the successful large businesses used to be successful smaller businesses. Given that heavyweight EU regulations disproportionately affect those smaller businesses, because their compliance costs are relatively high, and given that excessive regulation makes it harder or in some cases impractical for businesses to trade within the EU, it is kind of crazy that the EU keeps putting these barriers up. Its own economic fortunes and those of its member states fundamentally depend on maintaining a good environment for smaller businesses to start and grow. Things rarely end well for economies that fail to do so.