3 ms·

As a US citizen it is a valid argument because those "other guys" is our own country. It's not "don't go after those guys", but "take care of our own problems

by elago 9y ago

As a US citizen it is a valid argument because those "other guys" is our own country. It's not "don't go after those guys", but "take care of our own problems first". This way, when offering solutions to other oppressive countries we wouldn't look like hypocrites. Would you believe a massively obese and sickly person telling you the importance of diet and exercise?

mitchty 9y ago
> Would you believe a massively obese and sickly person telling you the importance of diet and exercise? Yes, they would be the ideal person to give that advice.
- jsonderulio 9y ago
  Boom nailed it. I just don't want them correcting my form.
- elago 9y ago
  Dang, okay, that was a stupid analogy I made. It should have been something like "If you're obese and sickly, should you spend your time evangelizing the importance of diet and exercise to other unhealthy people instead of eating right and exercising yourself?" I don't think its even a good analogy anymore though. I get that 'what-aboutism' is a logical fallacy in general, and it can prevent beneficial action from taking place. Isn't it a special case when the 'other party' is yourself? (obviously this is a US centric comment).
  - mitchty 9y ago
    Consider it simply that you should endeavor to take good advice no matter the source, even if they seem hypocritical. Bruce Lee was right in this regard, take what works from wherever you can. Worrying about the messenger being biased can ignore a really good tree in an overall forest.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Would you want McDonalds to give dietary advice, while at the same time pushing burgers and fries down the world's throat?
phyller 9y ago
So we shouldn't try to help people in other countries until we are literally perfect? Or are you making the argument that the US government is in fact more oppressive than the Chinese government? The reality for the US is if it tries to take action to improve perceived injustices in the world, it is being hypocritical and "imperialist". If it does nothing, it is selfish and heartless, having the power to help but doing nothing. As far as the US goes, we are screwed either way. Regardless, I think I can look at what is happening in China, not like it, and feel foreboding about the future. This isn't some small country somewhere. This is the most populous country in the world and I empathize with the people who live there. And frankly, China is the heir apparent to the US as the global super power. This concerns us all.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >So we shouldn't try to help people in other countries until we are literally perfect? You shouldn't try to help people in other countries, period. Who appointed you world cop? Besides, it always ends up in tears (besides it being hypocritical help with strategic ambitions attached from the establishment side, even if ordinary people mean it sincerely). >Or are you making the argument that the US government is in fact more oppressive than the Chinese government? Internally, not. Globally, surely yes.
  - mygo 9y ago
    >You shouldn't try to help people in other countries, period So when oppressed people inside an imperfect country are pleading for help from another imperfect country which is capable of helping, The country being begged to help should go “sorry, we’re imperfect, can’t help. Besides, even though you’re asking for our help and we can certainly help, we’re not the global police, so we can’t help you.”
    - dagw 9y ago
      There's help and there's help. Are we talking help as in sending temporary emergency relief after a natural disaster or famine or help as in ousting a democratically elected leader and replacing him with a puppet dictator?

by elago 9y ago

mitchty 9y ago

> Would you believe a massively obese and sickly person telling you the importance of diet and exercise? Yes, they would be the ideal person to give that advice.

jsonderulio 9y ago
Boom nailed it. I just don't want them correcting my form.
elago 9y ago
Dang, okay, that was a stupid analogy I made. It should have been something like "If you're obese and sickly, should you spend your time evangelizing the importance of diet and exercise to other unhealthy people instead of eating right and exercising yourself?" I don't think its even a good analogy anymore though. I get that 'what-aboutism' is a logical fallacy in general, and it can prevent beneficial action from taking place. Isn't it a special case when the 'other party' is yourself? (obviously this is a US centric comment).
- mitchty 9y ago
  Consider it simply that you should endeavor to take good advice no matter the source, even if they seem hypocritical. Bruce Lee was right in this regard, take what works from wherever you can. Worrying about the messenger being biased can ignore a really good tree in an overall forest.
coldtea 9y ago
Would you want McDonalds to give dietary advice, while at the same time pushing burgers and fries down the world's throat?

phyller 9y ago

So we shouldn't try to help people in other countries until we are literally perfect? Or are you making the argument that the US government is in fact more oppressive than the Chinese government? The reality for the US is if it tries to take action to improve perceived injustices in the world, it is being hypocritical and "imperialist". If it does nothing, it is selfish and heartless, having the power to help but doing nothing. As far as the US goes, we are screwed either way. Regardless, I think I can look at what is happening in China, not like it, and feel foreboding about the future. This isn't some small country somewhere. This is the most populous country in the world and I empathize with the people who live there. And frankly, China is the heir apparent to the US as the global super power. This concerns us all.

coldtea 9y ago
>So we shouldn't try to help people in other countries until we are literally perfect? You shouldn't try to help people in other countries, period. Who appointed you world cop? Besides, it always ends up in tears (besides it being hypocritical help with strategic ambitions attached from the establishment side, even if ordinary people mean it sincerely). >Or are you making the argument that the US government is in fact more oppressive than the Chinese government? Internally, not. Globally, surely yes.
- mygo 9y ago
  >You shouldn't try to help people in other countries, period So when oppressed people inside an imperfect country are pleading for help from another imperfect country which is capable of helping, The country being begged to help should go “sorry, we’re imperfect, can’t help. Besides, even though you’re asking for our help and we can certainly help, we’re not the global police, so we can’t help you.”
  - dagw 9y ago
    There's help and there's help. Are we talking help as in sending temporary emergency relief after a natural disaster or famine or help as in ousting a democratically elected leader and replacing him with a puppet dictator?