4 ms·

Burning Man's open source cell phone system could help save the world

107 points by mcantelon 16y ago

chopsueyar 16y ago
This makes used GSM phones more valuable.
patrickaljord 16y ago
Looks amazing, direct links to the project and blog: * http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ * http://openbts.blogspot.com/ http://openbts.blogspot.com/
kiba 16y ago
Now, let network all the hackerspace together, and then network all the members of the hackerspace together and so on. Than you have a pretty awesome cellular network, maybe with free internet built in. Of course, it would probably cost 30 bucks up-front to set one up for your house. Can this be done or is it somehow unfeasible?
- sigstoat 16y ago
  the FCC and similar organizations will frown upon you using the GSM bands without permission. as will the millions of paying GSM customers, whose service you'd be interfering with.
sbierwagen 16y ago
"Save the world"? Seriously? The key paragraph: A full‐power base station with software costs around $10,000. Compare that to the typical $50,000 - $100,000 investment for base station controllers, mobile switching centers and "a whole lot of plumbing" to bring in power, backhaul, etc., in a traditional cellular network. So it's a base station that's a fifth as expensive as a regular base station. And since there's no BoM, we don't know if that ten thousand dollar number includes solar panels to power the thing, or wireless backhaul to network the base stations together. Don't forget that it runs on licensed frequencies, so you have to pay your local radio licensing agency to use it. It's not like a wifi router, which you can just buy and turn it on out of the box. It doesn't matter if it's open source if you can't use it without breaking the law. Really, the only amazing thing here is how they got Network World to run such a blatant puff piece about such a fundamentally unexciting product.
- indrax 16y ago
  If the price came down a lot, you could do this with a home base station. Still illegal, but I think unlikely to be noticed. I am not a cellular engineer. Likewise, anything out in the middle of nowhere like burning man could probably do this covertly. Governments in other nations might view this in an entirely different way: cheap infrastructure. Plus, this is a great example when arguing for opening up these frequencies a bit here.
  - mattmillr 16y ago
    Wasn't there an article posted here last week about hackers using this same software stack to spoof towers and intercept calls with about $1500 in gear?
    - mctavjb9 16y ago
      Are you referring to Chris Paget's demo at DEFCON at the end of July? OpenBTS can in fact be used for nefarious purposes (or to demonstrate the intrinsic insecurity of the GSM standard). It could also in principle be used by law enforcement agencies to track criminals.
  - sigstoat 16y ago
    if you want wireless phones in your home that talk SIP, they're available in the form of DECT phones with SIP-capable basestations, or WiFi phones. you could get quite a few of either of them before your cost reaches the cost of this thing. also you won't have to figure in the cost of a massive FCC fine.
- bostonvaulter2 16y ago
  I'm curious how much of that $10,000 is for hardware and how it compares to the amount for hardware for those other solutions.
  - jeebusroxors 16y ago
    The USRP II is ~$1400, plus a PC, plus the antenna/mast I would think no more than 5k? A link to the USRP site: http://www.ettus.com/ http://www.ettus.com/
spot 16y ago
when i posted a link to their wiki last week nobody even noticed. harumph. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1636330 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1636330
joshu 16y ago
I hooked my phone to this system a few years ago at a conference. The unicode in the cell name made my blackberry sad...

107 points by mcantelon 16y ago

This makes used GSM phones more valuable.

Looks amazing, direct links to the project and blog: * http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ * http://openbts.blogspot.com/ http://openbts.blogspot.com/

kiba 16y ago

Now, let network all the hackerspace together, and then network all the members of the hackerspace together and so on. Than you have a pretty awesome cellular network, maybe with free internet built in. Of course, it would probably cost 30 bucks up-front to set one up for your house. Can this be done or is it somehow unfeasible?

sigstoat 16y ago
the FCC and similar organizations will frown upon you using the GSM bands without permission. as will the millions of paying GSM customers, whose service you'd be interfering with.

sbierwagen 16y ago

"Save the world"? Seriously? The key paragraph: A full‐power base station with software costs around $10,000. Compare that to the typical $50,000 - $100,000 investment for base station controllers, mobile switching centers and "a whole lot of plumbing" to bring in power, backhaul, etc., in a traditional cellular network. So it's a base station that's a fifth as expensive as a regular base station. And since there's no BoM, we don't know if that ten thousand dollar number includes solar panels to power the thing, or wireless backhaul to network the base stations together. Don't forget that it runs on licensed frequencies, so you have to pay your local radio licensing agency to use it. It's not like a wifi router, which you can just buy and turn it on out of the box. It doesn't matter if it's open source if you can't use it without breaking the law. Really, the only amazing thing here is how they got Network World to run such a blatant puff piece about such a fundamentally unexciting product.

indrax 16y ago
If the price came down a lot, you could do this with a home base station. Still illegal, but I think unlikely to be noticed. I am not a cellular engineer. Likewise, anything out in the middle of nowhere like burning man could probably do this covertly. Governments in other nations might view this in an entirely different way: cheap infrastructure. Plus, this is a great example when arguing for opening up these frequencies a bit here.
- mattmillr 16y ago
  Wasn't there an article posted here last week about hackers using this same software stack to spoof towers and intercept calls with about $1500 in gear?
  - mctavjb9 16y ago
    Are you referring to Chris Paget's demo at DEFCON at the end of July? OpenBTS can in fact be used for nefarious purposes (or to demonstrate the intrinsic insecurity of the GSM standard). It could also in principle be used by law enforcement agencies to track criminals.
- sigstoat 16y ago
  if you want wireless phones in your home that talk SIP, they're available in the form of DECT phones with SIP-capable basestations, or WiFi phones. you could get quite a few of either of them before your cost reaches the cost of this thing. also you won't have to figure in the cost of a massive FCC fine.
bostonvaulter2 16y ago
I'm curious how much of that $10,000 is for hardware and how it compares to the amount for hardware for those other solutions.
- jeebusroxors 16y ago
  The USRP II is ~$1400, plus a PC, plus the antenna/mast I would think no more than 5k? A link to the USRP site: http://www.ettus.com/ http://www.ettus.com/

spot 16y ago

when i posted a link to their wiki last week nobody even noticed. harumph. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1636330 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1636330

joshu 16y ago

I hooked my phone to this system a few years ago at a conference. The unicode in the cell name made my blackberry sad...