4 ms·

> ...much more racial diversity Right, if you ignore the fact Asians make up a third of SV and hugely contribute to the tech scene, the area is totally lacking

by colmvp 9y ago

> ...much more racial diversity Right, if you ignore the fact Asians make up a third of SV and hugely contribute to the tech scene, the area is totally lacking diversity. NYC is so superficially centered on appearances, that I would never want SF to be like it. The type of strange ideas and interesting people I met in SF wouldn't have thrived in NYC. It doesn't surprise me that something like YC bloomed in SV, not in NYC, at least until it became a trendy industry. There's a reason why industries that involve appearances thrive in NYC, such as media, advertising, and fashion. Don't get me wrong, I love NYC, I lived there for a number of years and missed it when I moved to SF. But I've always disliked the sense of superiority that NYC has over the rest of the country. From my experience on living in both cities, NYC might be more diverse in industry, but at parties I found people in SF to be far more open to more thought provoking, controversial, and unconventional ideas.

chasing 9y ago
NYC is full of strange ideas and interesting people.
- electricslpnsld 9y ago
  ...and those strange and interesting people can still afford to live in NYC. Just look at the exodus of artists from San Francisco to Oakland, and now with landlords chasing everyone out of lofts in Oakland [1,2], from Oakland to LA. Despite paying lip service to the creative and the weird, the Bay Area has done very little to actually protect those folks [3]. [1] http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-move-out-after-new-warehouse-rules/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-... [2] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lick-warehouse-in-oakland-are-getting-evicted/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lic... [3] https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artists-leaving-sf-bay-area-grass-is-greener-12382578.php https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artis...
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance. But if you have lived in S.F. and also New York, it's easy to see why someone would claim N.Y. is more diverse. I think it has a lot to do with embracing different ways of living. Its a pretty common joke how much conformity there is in the Bay in a basic workplace enviroment, ie. wear this flannel shirt, have 'x' opinion on social media, have 'x' political view. New York isn't better or worse, but it feels like there is more variety in your day to day interactions with different types of people.
- jrnichols 9y ago
  > The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance. I noticed this in the Dallas/Ft Worth area too. What I also noticed was how many friends in both NYC and SF were completely oblivious to the fact that cities besides their own can also be rather diverse. Both SF and NYC are constantly in their own bubbles, and I wish that they'd break out of them more instead of dismissing 98% of the country as "flyover states."
  - Caveman_Coder 9y ago
    I left the Bay Area for the Pacific Northwest (and not Portland or Seattle)...the bubbles do exist...out here I can talk with my neighbor about all kinds of things pertaining to farming, self-sufficiency, home repair, electronics (as most farmers are pretty well versed in basic electronic repair), etc...I now look at SF/LA/NY as being stuck in their own superficial bubbles and I'm glad I left.
theteamm 9y ago
Unless you're a republican
SippinLean 9y ago
By "NYC" do you mean "Manhattan between 14th St and the park"? Queens is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the world. SF is seeing its diversity dwindle. If you think specific types of industry are an indicator of an area's superficiality, I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc.
- electricslpnsld 9y ago
  > I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc. Don't forget Levi's, Pixar, etc.
geebee 9y ago
One thing about racial diversity - a lot of metrics simply divide up the world into 4 groups (white, black, asian, hispanic) and then measure how close a population is to 25% of each group. Quite a while ago (like 15+ years ago), I read a bit on language diversity, a chart of the number of languages spoken by at least 1000 households. San Francisco actually was highest on the list, higher even than New York (which was also very high up there). Sorry for no cite, it was a while ago, I haven't been able to recreate this. SF's diversity may have dropped a bit since then, but it's most assuredly still there (I hear several different languages at least every day just walking around). But I do think it's another decent metric. After all, by the first measurement, there is essentially no diversity in Asia, which is absurd.
- ameister14 9y ago
  I think New York has over 800 different languages spoken - this article from the economist says it's the top in the US, close to the top in the world: https://www.economist.com/node/21528592 https://www.economist.com/node/21528592
ironjunkie 9y ago
I don't get that comment. My experience is the complete opposite. People in SV like to think they have unconventional ideas, but they all think the same way. ie, if you don't have the same pseudo-thought-provoking-disruptive ideas as the others, you will be laughed at literally. I will quote Noam Chomsky, that perfectly summarizes SV in my opinion: ` One of the ways you control what people think is by creating the illusion that there’s a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. ` NYC is way more diverse both graphically and in thoughts as you have people having completely different lifes, in different type of industries, with real-issues at hands.

by colmvp 9y ago

chasing 9y ago

NYC is full of strange ideas and interesting people.

electricslpnsld 9y ago
...and those strange and interesting people can still afford to live in NYC. Just look at the exodus of artists from San Francisco to Oakland, and now with landlords chasing everyone out of lofts in Oakland [1,2], from Oakland to LA. Despite paying lip service to the creative and the weird, the Bay Area has done very little to actually protect those folks [3]. [1] http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-move-out-after-new-warehouse-rules/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-... [2] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lick-warehouse-in-oakland-are-getting-evicted/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lic... [3] https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artists-leaving-sf-bay-area-grass-is-greener-12382578.php https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artis...

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance. But if you have lived in S.F. and also New York, it's easy to see why someone would claim N.Y. is more diverse. I think it has a lot to do with embracing different ways of living. Its a pretty common joke how much conformity there is in the Bay in a basic workplace enviroment, ie. wear this flannel shirt, have 'x' opinion on social media, have 'x' political view. New York isn't better or worse, but it feels like there is more variety in your day to day interactions with different types of people.

jrnichols 9y ago
> The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance. I noticed this in the Dallas/Ft Worth area too. What I also noticed was how many friends in both NYC and SF were completely oblivious to the fact that cities besides their own can also be rather diverse. Both SF and NYC are constantly in their own bubbles, and I wish that they'd break out of them more instead of dismissing 98% of the country as "flyover states."
- Caveman_Coder 9y ago
  I left the Bay Area for the Pacific Northwest (and not Portland or Seattle)...the bubbles do exist...out here I can talk with my neighbor about all kinds of things pertaining to farming, self-sufficiency, home repair, electronics (as most farmers are pretty well versed in basic electronic repair), etc...I now look at SF/LA/NY as being stuck in their own superficial bubbles and I'm glad I left.

theteamm 9y ago

Unless you're a republican

SippinLean 9y ago

By "NYC" do you mean "Manhattan between 14th St and the park"? Queens is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the world. SF is seeing its diversity dwindle. If you think specific types of industry are an indicator of an area's superficiality, I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc.

electricslpnsld 9y ago
> I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc. Don't forget Levi's, Pixar, etc.

geebee 9y ago

One thing about racial diversity - a lot of metrics simply divide up the world into 4 groups (white, black, asian, hispanic) and then measure how close a population is to 25% of each group. Quite a while ago (like 15+ years ago), I read a bit on language diversity, a chart of the number of languages spoken by at least 1000 households. San Francisco actually was highest on the list, higher even than New York (which was also very high up there). Sorry for no cite, it was a while ago, I haven't been able to recreate this. SF's diversity may have dropped a bit since then, but it's most assuredly still there (I hear several different languages at least every day just walking around). But I do think it's another decent metric. After all, by the first measurement, there is essentially no diversity in Asia, which is absurd.

ameister14 9y ago
I think New York has over 800 different languages spoken - this article from the economist says it's the top in the US, close to the top in the world: https://www.economist.com/node/21528592 https://www.economist.com/node/21528592

ironjunkie 9y ago

I don't get that comment. My experience is the complete opposite. People in SV like to think they have unconventional ideas, but they all think the same way. ie, if you don't have the same pseudo-thought-provoking-disruptive ideas as the others, you will be laughed at literally. I will quote Noam Chomsky, that perfectly summarizes SV in my opinion: ` One of the ways you control what people think is by creating the illusion that there’s a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. ` NYC is way more diverse both graphically and in thoughts as you have people having completely different lifes, in different type of industries, with real-issues at hands.