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Polymer breakthrough reveals unprecedented alternative to battery power storage

23 points by autopoiesis 9y ago

autopoiesis 9y ago
More details at https://www.theengineer.co.uk/supercapacitors-battery-technologies/ https://www.theengineer.co.uk/supercapacitors-battery-techno... -- hard to find an actual paper, though
Animats 9y ago
"The test results from the new polymers suggest that extremely high energy density supercapacitors could be constructed in the very new future." Not "We have a demo model working". More on the actual chemistry, from 2017.[1] Seems they announced this before, in June 2017. Even if this doesn't turn into a big energy storage thing, maybe they can replace ordinary electrolytic capacitors. Least reliable component in electronics. [1] https://chemical-materials.elsevier.com/new-materials-applications/ultracapacity-polymeric-supercapacitors-viable-alternatives-batteries/ https://chemical-materials.elsevier.com/new-materials-applic...
- DennisP 9y ago
  As of 2018 it's tested: > By using small single layer cells charged to 1.5 volts for two to five minutes and then run demonstration devices, including a small fan. > By using a three-cell series stack that is able to be rapidly charged to five volts and operate an LED. https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-traditional-batteries-moves-step-closer-reality-after-exciting https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-... (Link first posted here by BugsJustFindMe. Also says "if these values of capacitance can be achieved in production, it could potentially see supercapacitors achieving energy densities of up to 180whr/kg - greater than lithium ion batteries.")
  - nimos 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Performanc... Wikipedia shows 100-250whr/kg for lithium ion. Not familiar enough to know which is right.
    - Karunamon 9y ago
      I think you stumbled on a wiki turd. Citation for the x-250 number is https://web.archive.org/web/20111107060525/http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_LiIon_Overview.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20111107060525/http://www.panaso..., which has the volumetric density in kG/L but not the specific density.
tlb 9y ago
They claim 4F / cm² between smooth surfaces, which seems impossibly high. Even if the dielectric is only 5 Å thick, that corresponds to a dielectric constant of 2.2e6. The highest dielectric constants materials I know of are around 2e4.
- bb88 9y ago
  There are lots of things which are publicized like this but never go anywhere.
pbnjay 9y ago
(2016)
BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
The 2018 version of this is https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-traditional-batteries-moves-step-closer-reality-after-exciting https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-... I'm not sure why the 2016 release was posted instead.
- autopoiesis 9y ago
  Honestly, I'm not sure how that happened either. Thanks for posting the new one!
deepnotderp 9y ago
Anyone have a link to the actual paper? Some polymers are known to have extremely high dielectric constants.

23 points by autopoiesis 9y ago

More details at https://www.theengineer.co.uk/supercapacitors-battery-technologies/ https://www.theengineer.co.uk/supercapacitors-battery-techno... -- hard to find an actual paper, though

Animats 9y ago

"The test results from the new polymers suggest that extremely high energy density supercapacitors could be constructed in the very new future." Not "We have a demo model working". More on the actual chemistry, from 2017.[1] Seems they announced this before, in June 2017. Even if this doesn't turn into a big energy storage thing, maybe they can replace ordinary electrolytic capacitors. Least reliable component in electronics. [1] https://chemical-materials.elsevier.com/new-materials-applications/ultracapacity-polymeric-supercapacitors-viable-alternatives-batteries/ https://chemical-materials.elsevier.com/new-materials-applic...

DennisP 9y ago
As of 2018 it's tested: > By using small single layer cells charged to 1.5 volts for two to five minutes and then run demonstration devices, including a small fan. > By using a three-cell series stack that is able to be rapidly charged to five volts and operate an LED. https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-traditional-batteries-moves-step-closer-reality-after-exciting https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-... (Link first posted here by BugsJustFindMe. Also says "if these values of capacitance can be achieved in production, it could potentially see supercapacitors achieving energy densities of up to 180whr/kg - greater than lithium ion batteries.")
- nimos 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Performanc... Wikipedia shows 100-250whr/kg for lithium ion. Not familiar enough to know which is right.
  - Karunamon 9y ago
    I think you stumbled on a wiki turd. Citation for the x-250 number is https://web.archive.org/web/20111107060525/http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_LiIon_Overview.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20111107060525/http://www.panaso..., which has the volumetric density in kG/L but not the specific density.

tlb 9y ago

They claim 4F / cm² between smooth surfaces, which seems impossibly high. Even if the dielectric is only 5 Å thick, that corresponds to a dielectric constant of 2.2e6. The highest dielectric constants materials I know of are around 2e4.

bb88 9y ago
There are lots of things which are publicized like this but never go anywhere.

pbnjay 9y ago

(2016)

BugsJustFindMe 9y ago

The 2018 version of this is https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-traditional-batteries-moves-step-closer-reality-after-exciting https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/press/2018/alternative-... I'm not sure why the 2016 release was posted instead.

autopoiesis 9y ago
Honestly, I'm not sure how that happened either. Thanks for posting the new one!

deepnotderp 9y ago

Anyone have a link to the actual paper? Some polymers are known to have extremely high dielectric constants.