6 ms·

It's a suggestion, not a request and a good one at that. So who should be saying 'thank you' here (if anyone)?

by mung 9y ago

prophesi 9y ago
Tact.
- CRConrad 9y ago
  Or "Tack". ;-) No, of course the word you're after is "tact". (And even as a foreigner, it annoys the heck out of me when people mix them up [which you didn't!], ususally as in "take another tact" when they mean "take another tack" [where 'tack' is a originally a sailing term for flipping the sail to the other side of the boat when going against the wind, IIUC; so the expression means "go in a slightly different direction"].) I'm just riffing on Heikki's remark about foreign languages: In my primary language, Swedish, "tack" means "thank you" but is also often used for Eng. "please" -- so "Kan du ... , tack?" means "Could you ... , please?". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacking_(sailing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacking_(sailing)
nothrabannosir 9y ago
There’s a human being at the other end of the line. They have feelings. This is their baby, which they’ve gestated for multiple years. Rational fundamentalism is not the one ring to rule them all. There is room for love and compassion in the world. I know (painfully well) that Internet forums (and this one in particular) anything but empower empathy, but that doesn’t make it any less true or valuable. There is room for love and empathy. There really is. Logical, rationalistic supremacy notwithstanding.
- darkerside 9y ago
  When your baby grows up, and you put it out in the world, you no longer need to--and no longer should--continue to treat it like a baby. The author is not her project, and statements about the project are not personal attacks on the author. And if she were going to take them as such, she probably wouldn't be sharing that project on HN.
  - nothrabannosir 9y ago
    This is not how humans work. Humans are not rational emotionless robots. Humans are complex beings , they have feelings, biases and emotions which they do not control. It’s humane , considerate and kind to keep that in mind when communicating with each other. Nobody is perfect. We shouldn’t expect anyone to be. Being kind and considerate is not a waste of anyone’s time, it’s not disrespectful nor patronising. Maybe all of this is not true for OP, maybe they’re so zen they immediately see past their human instinct to attach themselves to their work (a well known and documented human trait). But it can’t hurt to be tactful , just in case they’re not. I know I personally would’ve felt hurt if that first comment were the reply to something I did. I might, hopefully, have realised that it was, indeed, a useful comment and that I should swallow my pride. And I hope I would have the presence of mind to reply with a smile and a thank you. But it would be a pretense. Why put each other through that? We can be truthful and tactful. There is no reason to be blunt. I can understand the desire to unshackle ourselves from the low entropy morass of politeness. It’s fake and not what you really feel, right? The truth shines through anyway, so do them the honour of not sugar coating it, and be straight? I do understand, but hear this: you lack the nonverbal cues to make that incredibly delicate call. Face to face you would see the twitch in someone’s eye, the soft breeze of disappointment whisking along their face. A tear of pain streaking their human heart while they smile and nod and say thank you. You have an incredibly attune radar for empathy, and you would adjust. But when you lose all that, and the medium for your truth is this harsh knife forged from the soulless steel of words, it cuts more sharply than you can imagine. In a text only medium, I implore everyone on HN: take a moment to consider our humanity. Not just here, but in all threads. Not just of the person we reply to, but of those we speak of. They might read it one day. And they, too, are human. (I should say the painful irony in this rant is palpable to anyone who knows me :( but I am not proud of it. Perhaps it’s precisely why I feel so strongly. It does, after all, take one to know one.)
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

It's a suggestion, not a request and a good one at that. So who should be saying 'thank you' here (if anyone)?

by mung 9y ago

It's a suggestion, not a request and a good one at that. So who should be saying 'thank you' here (if anyone)?

prophesi 9y ago

Tact.

CRConrad 9y ago
Or "Tack". ;-) No, of course the word you're after is "tact". (And even as a foreigner, it annoys the heck out of me when people mix them up [which you didn't!], ususally as in "take another tact" when they mean "take another tack" [where 'tack' is a originally a sailing term for flipping the sail to the other side of the boat when going against the wind, IIUC; so the expression means "go in a slightly different direction"].) I'm just riffing on Heikki's remark about foreign languages: In my primary language, Swedish, "tack" means "thank you" but is also often used for Eng. "please" -- so "Kan du ... , tack?" means "Could you ... , please?". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacking_(sailing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacking_(sailing)

nothrabannosir 9y ago

There’s a human being at the other end of the line. They have feelings. This is their baby, which they’ve gestated for multiple years. Rational fundamentalism is not the one ring to rule them all. There is room for love and compassion in the world. I know (painfully well) that Internet forums (and this one in particular) anything but empower empathy, but that doesn’t make it any less true or valuable. There is room for love and empathy. There really is. Logical, rationalistic supremacy notwithstanding.

darkerside 9y ago
When your baby grows up, and you put it out in the world, you no longer need to--and no longer should--continue to treat it like a baby. The author is not her project, and statements about the project are not personal attacks on the author. And if she were going to take them as such, she probably wouldn't be sharing that project on HN.
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  This is not how humans work. Humans are not rational emotionless robots. Humans are complex beings , they have feelings, biases and emotions which they do not control. It’s humane , considerate and kind to keep that in mind when communicating with each other. Nobody is perfect. We shouldn’t expect anyone to be. Being kind and considerate is not a waste of anyone’s time, it’s not disrespectful nor patronising. Maybe all of this is not true for OP, maybe they’re so zen they immediately see past their human instinct to attach themselves to their work (a well known and documented human trait). But it can’t hurt to be tactful , just in case they’re not. I know I personally would’ve felt hurt if that first comment were the reply to something I did. I might, hopefully, have realised that it was, indeed, a useful comment and that I should swallow my pride. And I hope I would have the presence of mind to reply with a smile and a thank you. But it would be a pretense. Why put each other through that? We can be truthful and tactful. There is no reason to be blunt. I can understand the desire to unshackle ourselves from the low entropy morass of politeness. It’s fake and not what you really feel, right? The truth shines through anyway, so do them the honour of not sugar coating it, and be straight? I do understand, but hear this: you lack the nonverbal cues to make that incredibly delicate call. Face to face you would see the twitch in someone’s eye, the soft breeze of disappointment whisking along their face. A tear of pain streaking their human heart while they smile and nod and say thank you. You have an incredibly attune radar for empathy, and you would adjust. But when you lose all that, and the medium for your truth is this harsh knife forged from the soulless steel of words, it cuts more sharply than you can imagine. In a text only medium, I implore everyone on HN: take a moment to consider our humanity. Not just here, but in all threads. Not just of the person we reply to, but of those we speak of. They might read it one day. And they, too, are human. (I should say the painful irony in this rant is palpable to anyone who knows me :( but I am not proud of it. Perhaps it’s precisely why I feel so strongly. It does, after all, take one to know one.)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]