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A group of 5 engineers, left to their own devices, would probably produce about $100k worth of value. An effective manager can extract two million dollars worth

A group of 5 engineers, left to their own devices, would probably produce about $100k worth of value. An effective manager can extract two million dollars worth of value out of those same 5 engineers. If you don't believe this, you may have never had a great manager.

humanrebar 9y ago
And an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will produce $0 worth of value (or worse). I don't find this line of thought convincing. A better answer is "that's the market clearing price for good managers".
- longerthoughts 9y ago
  >And an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will produce $0 worth of value (or worse) No, an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will replace those engineers with more talented ones.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    I keep reading that there's a big shortage of those, though.
adrr 9y ago
Could say the same thing about athletes and coaches but who makes more in pro sports?
- yanslookup 9y ago
  Athletes collectively bargain. Either way, coaching still matters in sports.
  - geebee 9y ago
    Of course coaching matters! The point, I believe, is that the relationship between management and creative can be mutually beneficial, with both parties earning considerably more through a partnership than they would on their own. The fact that developers become much more valuable with a good manager doesn't, in itself, explain why managers are paid more. For example, let's say a manager without a good developer would be worth 100k of value a year, and a developer without a good manager would produce 100k, but working together, they produce 500k. There is now a surplus. Now, if it's easy to be a developer and very difficult to be a manager, then it would make sense that the manager would capture most of the surplus, because he or she could always just go and find a new talented developer to work with. The Rolling Stones can find a new manager more easily than a manager can find a new Rolling Stones. However, ahem, it seems to be the managers constantly bemoaning the difficulty of hiring good developers. Share a bit more of that surplus, and you may find those hiring woes aren't quite so woeful?
deleted 9y ago
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humanrebar 9y ago

And an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will produce $0 worth of value (or worse). I don't find this line of thought convincing. A better answer is "that's the market clearing price for good managers".

longerthoughts 9y ago
>And an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will produce $0 worth of value (or worse) No, an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will replace those engineers with more talented ones.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  I keep reading that there's a big shortage of those, though.

adrr 9y ago

Could say the same thing about athletes and coaches but who makes more in pro sports?

yanslookup 9y ago
Athletes collectively bargain. Either way, coaching still matters in sports.
- geebee 9y ago
  Of course coaching matters! The point, I believe, is that the relationship between management and creative can be mutually beneficial, with both parties earning considerably more through a partnership than they would on their own. The fact that developers become much more valuable with a good manager doesn't, in itself, explain why managers are paid more. For example, let's say a manager without a good developer would be worth 100k of value a year, and a developer without a good manager would produce 100k, but working together, they produce 500k. There is now a surplus. Now, if it's easy to be a developer and very difficult to be a manager, then it would make sense that the manager would capture most of the surplus, because he or she could always just go and find a new talented developer to work with. The Rolling Stones can find a new manager more easily than a manager can find a new Rolling Stones. However, ahem, it seems to be the managers constantly bemoaning the difficulty of hiring good developers. Share a bit more of that surplus, and you may find those hiring woes aren't quite so woeful?

deleted 9y ago

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