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> Compared to having your own car, even the absolutely best, world class, mass transit service is just terrible. That seems an overly strong absolute. I would

> Compared to having your own car, even the absolutely best, world class, mass transit service is just terrible. That seems an overly strong absolute. I would easily take a quick, clean, close, and reliable bus over car storage, maintenance, insurance, driving in traffic, ensuring I'm mentally alert enough to drive, finding parking, and paying for parking at my destination. That doesn't even mention the purchase experience, which is probably the worst buying experience there is. I've had such transit to some areas of different cities so I know it is possible. Generally, the more urban the area, the greater the benefits to transit and the higher the costs of car ownership, which makes your comment about properly designed cities questionable - what do you see as "properly designed" that still supports density? Even if you would never personally see the transit half as worth more than the car ownership half, can you see where others, who have different needs/uses for transportation, would?

ars 9y ago
> what do you see as "properly designed" that still supports density? I don't support density. I understand some like it, and that's good for them. But I personally hate it, and I know a lot of other people that hate it as well. I would hate to see the US switch to that being the primary form of life. But I'm not really worried - enough people hate it, that it's unlikely. The highest density I'm willing to consider is a 2 family row house (i.e. side to side, not up and down) on each plot of land. Anything denser than that and I'm not going to live there. Each house should have a front and back yard, at least some space on the sides between houses. We are not animals, there's no reason to pack people in like battery farming. Unless that's what you like. If you like that, more power to you.
- ergothus 9y ago
  Thanks for the reply (and for answering my question in it)! I disagree on some conclusions, but that's not really relevant to this topic no matter how interesting it'd be. I'm a bit lost on one aspect though - in relation to the original purpose, I thought you were saying that advocating for mass transit in a city is a battle that cannot be won, and that cities could be designed to avoid the need for mass transit. Now I'm reading you as saying that not everyone will like mass transit and that a significant group will avoid cities - which are different statements than my original reading (and points I agree with). Am I missing something, or do I now get your core points?

ars 9y ago

> what do you see as "properly designed" that still supports density? I don't support density. I understand some like it, and that's good for them. But I personally hate it, and I know a lot of other people that hate it as well. I would hate to see the US switch to that being the primary form of life. But I'm not really worried - enough people hate it, that it's unlikely. The highest density I'm willing to consider is a 2 family row house (i.e. side to side, not up and down) on each plot of land. Anything denser than that and I'm not going to live there. Each house should have a front and back yard, at least some space on the sides between houses. We are not animals, there's no reason to pack people in like battery farming. Unless that's what you like. If you like that, more power to you.

ergothus 9y ago
Thanks for the reply (and for answering my question in it)! I disagree on some conclusions, but that's not really relevant to this topic no matter how interesting it'd be. I'm a bit lost on one aspect though - in relation to the original purpose, I thought you were saying that advocating for mass transit in a city is a battle that cannot be won, and that cities could be designed to avoid the need for mass transit. Now I'm reading you as saying that not everyone will like mass transit and that a significant group will avoid cities - which are different statements than my original reading (and points I agree with). Am I missing something, or do I now get your core points?