13 ms·

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking abou

by woah 9y ago

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my younger years and saw this kind of attitude from the occasional meth user on the jobsite. I'm seeing more coherent echoes of it in this thread. Another theme that pops up sometimes is someone who says that they used to take stimulants and they were super productive, but they don't anymore, but actually they still do.

coldtea 9y ago
>People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves As opposed to people who don't?
- vkou 9y ago
  I generally love talking about myself, but I don't love talking about how I had a glass of cab last night, and how I can't wait to get home and have another.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    No, but non-drug-using people also love to talk about their abstinence, teetotalism, vegetarianism, healthy lifestyle, Jesus, and so on...
lordofmoria 9y ago
Logged in to upvote this. Birds of a feather flock together. I’ve personally never come across anyone who (admits) to using anything stronger than Redbull. In fact, we have some employees who don’t even drink coffee, opting for “natural” stimulants which come with less of a crash. Yerba Mate seems particularly popular these days. However, I may be in my own bubble; I’m very interested in seeing what you find!
- Balgair 9y ago
  Mate is the 'same' as coffee, in that it's just caffeine. There is some research to say that the mate derived caffeine is largely an isomer of caffeine, in that the molecule is shaped differently. This is then used to explain why mate is more potent to users without a habituation to coffee derived caffeine. However, the research is still ongoing and the isomer theory is not yet proved, AFAIK. Likely it's just a placebo effect, but a strong one nonetheless. Having spent some time in South America, mate sure is nice and a good change of pace. In the countrysides, it's not uncommon to see people with large thermoses slung under the elbow (for hot water) and a mate gourd in the same hand, happily sipping the days away. I'd recommend it for anyone looking to add some variety in your daily routine. Be advised that it is an acquired taste and may take a week to get used to, just like coffee was in the beginning. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate [1] https://www.amazon.com/Guayaki-Traditional-Organic-Yerba-Loose/dp/B001TNXSZG https://www.amazon.com/Guayaki-Traditional-Organic-Yerba-Loo... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Mategreen-M0035-Argentina-Yerba-Gourd/dp/B00E0MVOFO/ref=pd_sim_325_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00E0MVOFO&pd_rd_r=04764VAH3FESKQ3YVHMY&pd_rd_w=N4piD&pd_rd_wg=yZ3qH&psc=1&refRID=04764VAH3FESKQ3YVHMY https://www.amazon.com/Mategreen-M0035-Argentina-Yerba-Gourd... (though there are cheaper gourds that can just sit without tipping, I prefer the traditional hand-held ones)
  - woolvalley 9y ago
    Redbulls & other energy drinks have B vitamins and such that synergies with the caffeine to make the energy effect stronger. So even though your drinking 70mg of caffeine in a redbull, it feels a lot stronger. Drinks such as coffee have a ton of caffeine in comparison. A cup of coffee has around ~200mg of caffeine, while yerba mate drinks have around ~70mg: http://guayaki.com/caffeine_meter.html http://guayaki.com/caffeine_meter.html So drinking yerba mate is a lot like drinking tea as far as the caffeine experience goes.
    - Balgair 9y ago
      Unfortunately, it seems that B vitamins do not 'synergize' with caffeine in an appreciable way, per an article from the LA times in 2008. Caffeine does have a 'negative' effect on circulating B vitamin percentage, but I could only find one study from 2008 about it, and it's not unhealthy. As is, the B vitamins with coffee really only seem to help in the elderly. That said, yeah, mate is pretty mild in terms of caffeine content. http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-skeptic14-2008jul14-story.html http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-skeptic14-2008jul14-stor...
pnathan 9y ago
It does seem to be pretty bimodal, doesn't it...
whalesalad 9y ago
I can totally see where you are coming from, but I hope you aren't directing your comments towards what I said above. I actually felt pretty vulnerable submitting my comment (as opposed to being someone who loves to talk about myself) It seems to be resonating with others now, so that feeling has warn off, but initially I was a little concerned to open up and be so candid in a public forum. Also, I did not intend to downplay those who are incredibly successful without drugs. I've just witnessed time and time again the scenario where person A is completely awe-struck by person B and their accomplishments and doesn't realize it 's because they have a literal advantage due to performance enhancing drugs. Then someone says, "oh yeah, so and so takes a ton of adderall, didn't you know?" and everything begins to make more sense.
- Blahah 9y ago
  Just to chime in, in my response to OP I felt like I was making myself vulnerable. I was honest about what I experience because someone asked and was clearly hurt in the past by the lack of honesty around it. I don't feel attacked, but I also really hope I'm right about that. People talking about this stuff openly are exposing themselves. I didn't do it to brag. I just saw someone who was making a genuine request for experiences like mine, and I answered.
- woah 9y ago
  Not trying to be negative about you, sorry. I actually was prescribed stimulants as a child for ADD, and still take modafinil very occasionally. My comment was more directed towards some of the sensationalist articles you see about stimulant use sometimes where I always get the impression that the journalist talked to one guy who talked their ear off and gave them a bunch of juicy exaggerated quotes.
- Eilene 9y ago
  In college I worked as a waitress for 10 hour shifts with 8-10 tables at a time, and it was madness. (Mario Batali was a cook when I was there). And I remember thinking all the waitresses and cooks were just really fast and upbeat, the way I was. And then my boyfriend at the time, also a cook, laughed at my ignorance and told me that almost everyone else was doing coke or crank all night long. I had no idea.
jrs95 9y ago
This may be true for many, but my history with stimulant usage was limited to coping with a lack of sleep. I'd work 70+ hours a week between two jobs and then still spend time working on freelance tech work to try and get out of fast food and pizza delivery. There were severe side effects, and even thinking of taking that crap again makes me feel a bit sick.
badcede 9y ago
"they don't anymore, but actually they still do" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKtxHTcnho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKtxHTcnho
darpa_escapee 9y ago
When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect and prolong drug use. I see this all the time with white-collar and middle-class users. They may have to take drugs to function, will crash, lose sleep, have mood swings and resultant relationship problems, but it all gets rationalized away because they have a job and aren't homeless yet. You'll see things like projection, minimization, rationalization, denial, shifting blame and intellectualization used to defend, deflect and justify drug use. Another type stays rational about drugs, despite how easy it is to let the honeymoon period trick them into believing that there are only positives and no downsides. They don't tend to lean on the psychological defenses mentioned above. They also tend not to abuse drugs chronically or end up dependent. The final type, if they haven't died, has been kicked in the ass by drug use and was forced to be brutally honest about it. They might still use, but they know they have a problem, or they might be sober. If you see a person talking about drug use as if there are no downsides, only positives, you are probably witnessing someone who belongs to the first camp.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  You shouldn't be lumping all "drugs" together. Of course technically every drug has a downside, for some it's not significant. Basically food is just a drug too, except by definition.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - darpa_escapee 9y ago
    Addictive drugs are addictive drugs. If you spend enough time around people who abuse substances, you will see the common threads among them when it comes to how they view their use. You could replace 'drugs' in my post above with 'alcohol', 'excessive exercise' or 'binge eating' and it would still hold true.
walrus01 9y ago
Anecdotally: Work in wireless telecom. Tower climbing contractors have shifted to hair tests for drugs because so many applicants try to evade tests, or test positive. They also regularly have issues with people who get their drivers licenses revoked for DUI, to the extent that job postings including "must have current/valid drivers license".
- Eilene 9y ago
  If I sound like an idiot, forgive me, but you mean, literally, contractors that have to physically climb towers, right?
  - walrus01 9y ago
    Yes, the people who do the physical installation and maintenance of antennas and lighting on cellular towers, for the most part. Also repair/maintenance for mobile radio systems (public safety), AM/FM radio, etc.
eric_b 9y ago
To add to this - people often equate energy with productivity. I see a lot of comments saying "it was the most productive I've ever been in my life". As someone who's been on both sides, I used to believe stimulants granted exceptional focus and productivity as well. After starting my own business and seeing what real focus and productivity look like, I believe stimulants only help when it comes to slogging through proscribed, boring work. If it's a task that requires creative focus, you are better off getting a lot of sleep and letting your subconscious churn on the problem.
- tropshop 9y ago
  Just wanted to note that I found myself nodding as I read through almost all your recent comments. As someone just starting to bootstrap a business, I'm curious about yours. Care to share?
- tretonin 9y ago
  If it's proscribed, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. :)
  - FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
    Back to naturopathy school for you.
- internetman55 9y ago
  That's why I used to refuse to drink coffee at work. I'll drink coffee sometimes cause I like it, but I'm not gonna take drugs at the expense of my sleep schedule etc. to improve some company's bottom line.
carlesfe 9y ago
Indeed. Just to add another datapoint to the "negative" dataset, I don't do any drugs, including coffee. I drink decaf. I feel like being in a "natural" state is when I'm at my best. I drink alcohol sometimes on weekends, but never while working, it clouds my thinking too. Just my very personal 2c.
btrettel 9y ago
I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling coffee all day (or taking stronger things). I wouldn't work at a place that didn't allow me to take a nap if necessary. It's not uncommon for me to wake up with the solution to whatever problem I was working on too, so I think it would be wrong to call naps idle time. As an example, using spaced repetition memory software and getting enough sleep is going to be a lot better for your learning than taking aricept and modafinil. On my PhD quals some people seemed to think I was a wizard for the things I memorized. No drugs were involved, but I did read a few books on memory and religiously used spaced repetition software. I wish this attitude were more common.
- OtterCoder 9y ago
  Seconded. I've chugged an energy drink on the job once, and immediately regretted it. So many people forget that programming is more about thinking than typing, and refuse to let themselves just sit (or nap) and think.
- tyagis 9y ago
  Pretty interesting! Can you share what is your favorite spaced repetition software?
  - btrettel 9y ago
    I prefer Anki, though I started using Mnemosyne. https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://mnemosyne-proj.org/ https://mnemosyne-proj.org/ Both are good. I created most of the cards I use myself, as I only add what is relevant to me. There's also a lot of value in learning about how human memory and learning works. Some parts are like learning how to program your brain. Your brain works well with certain data structures. I'd recommend this book for those interested: https://www.amazon.com/Your-Memory-How-Works-Improve/dp/1569246297 https://www.amazon.com/Your-Memory-How-Works-Improve/dp/1569...
inferiorhuman 9y ago
Stimulants aren't my scene so I don't really know how prevalent they are in tech (but it's never been in my face, at least not compared to when I was in high school). However, marijuana and alcohol are freaking everywhere. Second week at a big company and I had a coworker showing me, among other things, pictures of his pot plantation. Plenty of folks vaped at work (some to the extent that they were incapable of doing their jobs). As for alcohol, San Francisco is a hard drinking town. In other countries if you get a cocktail it will be very carefully measured. Here? Outside of some artisan hipster joints you get hilariously unbalanced drinks. We had a drug/alcohol free policy at work but still had a beer fridge or two. Off-sites were generally open bar. 1:1 meetings? Often at the nearest bar (which typically lasted 1-2 drinks). Weekly team off-site lunches? Booze. First day on the job? Let's go to Kozy Kar (ugh) to celebrate with our high profile investor. Friday night? Let's go to Martuni's and get blitzed. CEO is too drunk to stand? Don't worry he's still good to drive. Hardly Strictly with the coworkers? Sure, let's make a pitcher of margaritas first.
gcb0 9y ago
> Another theme that pops up sometimes is someone who says that they used to take stimulants and they were super productive, but they don't anymore, but actually they still do. or never were. I mean "super" , just regular productive as on "motivated" .

by woah 9y ago

coldtea 9y ago

>People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves As opposed to people who don't?

vkou 9y ago
I generally love talking about myself, but I don't love talking about how I had a glass of cab last night, and how I can't wait to get home and have another.
- coldtea 9y ago
  No, but non-drug-using people also love to talk about their abstinence, teetotalism, vegetarianism, healthy lifestyle, Jesus, and so on...

lordofmoria 9y ago

Logged in to upvote this. Birds of a feather flock together. I’ve personally never come across anyone who (admits) to using anything stronger than Redbull. In fact, we have some employees who don’t even drink coffee, opting for “natural” stimulants which come with less of a crash. Yerba Mate seems particularly popular these days. However, I may be in my own bubble; I’m very interested in seeing what you find!

Balgair 9y ago
Mate is the 'same' as coffee, in that it's just caffeine. There is some research to say that the mate derived caffeine is largely an isomer of caffeine, in that the molecule is shaped differently. This is then used to explain why mate is more potent to users without a habituation to coffee derived caffeine. However, the research is still ongoing and the isomer theory is not yet proved, AFAIK. Likely it's just a placebo effect, but a strong one nonetheless. Having spent some time in South America, mate sure is nice and a good change of pace. In the countrysides, it's not uncommon to see people with large thermoses slung under the elbow (for hot water) and a mate gourd in the same hand, happily sipping the days away. I'd recommend it for anyone looking to add some variety in your daily routine. Be advised that it is an acquired taste and may take a week to get used to, just like coffee was in the beginning. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate [1] https://www.amazon.com/Guayaki-Traditional-Organic-Yerba-Loose/dp/B001TNXSZG https://www.amazon.com/Guayaki-Traditional-Organic-Yerba-Loo... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Mategreen-M0035-Argentina-Yerba-Gourd/dp/B00E0MVOFO/ref=pd_sim_325_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00E0MVOFO&pd_rd_r=04764VAH3FESKQ3YVHMY&pd_rd_w=N4piD&pd_rd_wg=yZ3qH&psc=1&refRID=04764VAH3FESKQ3YVHMY https://www.amazon.com/Mategreen-M0035-Argentina-Yerba-Gourd... (though there are cheaper gourds that can just sit without tipping, I prefer the traditional hand-held ones)
- woolvalley 9y ago
  Redbulls & other energy drinks have B vitamins and such that synergies with the caffeine to make the energy effect stronger. So even though your drinking 70mg of caffeine in a redbull, it feels a lot stronger. Drinks such as coffee have a ton of caffeine in comparison. A cup of coffee has around ~200mg of caffeine, while yerba mate drinks have around ~70mg: http://guayaki.com/caffeine_meter.html http://guayaki.com/caffeine_meter.html So drinking yerba mate is a lot like drinking tea as far as the caffeine experience goes.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    Unfortunately, it seems that B vitamins do not 'synergize' with caffeine in an appreciable way, per an article from the LA times in 2008. Caffeine does have a 'negative' effect on circulating B vitamin percentage, but I could only find one study from 2008 about it, and it's not unhealthy. As is, the B vitamins with coffee really only seem to help in the elderly. That said, yeah, mate is pretty mild in terms of caffeine content. http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-skeptic14-2008jul14-story.html http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-skeptic14-2008jul14-stor...

pnathan 9y ago

It does seem to be pretty bimodal, doesn't it...

whalesalad 9y ago

I can totally see where you are coming from, but I hope you aren't directing your comments towards what I said above. I actually felt pretty vulnerable submitting my comment (as opposed to being someone who loves to talk about myself) It seems to be resonating with others now, so that feeling has warn off, but initially I was a little concerned to open up and be so candid in a public forum. Also, I did not intend to downplay those who are incredibly successful without drugs. I've just witnessed time and time again the scenario where person A is completely awe-struck by person B and their accomplishments and doesn't realize it 's because they have a literal advantage due to performance enhancing drugs. Then someone says, "oh yeah, so and so takes a ton of adderall, didn't you know?" and everything begins to make more sense.

Blahah 9y ago
Just to chime in, in my response to OP I felt like I was making myself vulnerable. I was honest about what I experience because someone asked and was clearly hurt in the past by the lack of honesty around it. I don't feel attacked, but I also really hope I'm right about that. People talking about this stuff openly are exposing themselves. I didn't do it to brag. I just saw someone who was making a genuine request for experiences like mine, and I answered.
woah 9y ago
Not trying to be negative about you, sorry. I actually was prescribed stimulants as a child for ADD, and still take modafinil very occasionally. My comment was more directed towards some of the sensationalist articles you see about stimulant use sometimes where I always get the impression that the journalist talked to one guy who talked their ear off and gave them a bunch of juicy exaggerated quotes.
Eilene 9y ago
In college I worked as a waitress for 10 hour shifts with 8-10 tables at a time, and it was madness. (Mario Batali was a cook when I was there). And I remember thinking all the waitresses and cooks were just really fast and upbeat, the way I was. And then my boyfriend at the time, also a cook, laughed at my ignorance and told me that almost everyone else was doing coke or crank all night long. I had no idea.

jrs95 9y ago

This may be true for many, but my history with stimulant usage was limited to coping with a lack of sleep. I'd work 70+ hours a week between two jobs and then still spend time working on freelance tech work to try and get out of fast food and pizza delivery. There were severe side effects, and even thinking of taking that crap again makes me feel a bit sick.

badcede 9y ago

"they don't anymore, but actually they still do" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKtxHTcnho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKtxHTcnho

darpa_escapee 9y ago

When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect and prolong drug use. I see this all the time with white-collar and middle-class users. They may have to take drugs to function, will crash, lose sleep, have mood swings and resultant relationship problems, but it all gets rationalized away because they have a job and aren't homeless yet. You'll see things like projection, minimization, rationalization, denial, shifting blame and intellectualization used to defend, deflect and justify drug use. Another type stays rational about drugs, despite how easy it is to let the honeymoon period trick them into believing that there are only positives and no downsides. They don't tend to lean on the psychological defenses mentioned above. They also tend not to abuse drugs chronically or end up dependent. The final type, if they haven't died, has been kicked in the ass by drug use and was forced to be brutally honest about it. They might still use, but they know they have a problem, or they might be sober. If you see a person talking about drug use as if there are no downsides, only positives, you are probably witnessing someone who belongs to the first camp.

akvadrako 9y ago
You shouldn't be lumping all "drugs" together. Of course technically every drug has a downside, for some it's not significant. Basically food is just a drug too, except by definition.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- darpa_escapee 9y ago
  Addictive drugs are addictive drugs. If you spend enough time around people who abuse substances, you will see the common threads among them when it comes to how they view their use. You could replace 'drugs' in my post above with 'alcohol', 'excessive exercise' or 'binge eating' and it would still hold true.

walrus01 9y ago

Anecdotally: Work in wireless telecom. Tower climbing contractors have shifted to hair tests for drugs because so many applicants try to evade tests, or test positive. They also regularly have issues with people who get their drivers licenses revoked for DUI, to the extent that job postings including "must have current/valid drivers license".

Eilene 9y ago
If I sound like an idiot, forgive me, but you mean, literally, contractors that have to physically climb towers, right?
- walrus01 9y ago
  Yes, the people who do the physical installation and maintenance of antennas and lighting on cellular towers, for the most part. Also repair/maintenance for mobile radio systems (public safety), AM/FM radio, etc.

eric_b 9y ago

To add to this - people often equate energy with productivity. I see a lot of comments saying "it was the most productive I've ever been in my life". As someone who's been on both sides, I used to believe stimulants granted exceptional focus and productivity as well. After starting my own business and seeing what real focus and productivity look like, I believe stimulants only help when it comes to slogging through proscribed, boring work. If it's a task that requires creative focus, you are better off getting a lot of sleep and letting your subconscious churn on the problem.

tropshop 9y ago
Just wanted to note that I found myself nodding as I read through almost all your recent comments. As someone just starting to bootstrap a business, I'm curious about yours. Care to share?
tretonin 9y ago
If it's proscribed, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. :)
- FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
  Back to naturopathy school for you.
internetman55 9y ago
That's why I used to refuse to drink coffee at work. I'll drink coffee sometimes cause I like it, but I'm not gonna take drugs at the expense of my sleep schedule etc. to improve some company's bottom line.

carlesfe 9y ago

Indeed. Just to add another datapoint to the "negative" dataset, I don't do any drugs, including coffee. I drink decaf. I feel like being in a "natural" state is when I'm at my best. I drink alcohol sometimes on weekends, but never while working, it clouds my thinking too. Just my very personal 2c.

btrettel 9y ago

I'll second this. I don't even drink coffee. I've encountered people who seem absolutely incredulous that I take no stimulants at all. "How do you stay awake?" is something I'm asked. My go-to response now is "I don't. If I'm tired, I get more sleep." Some of these people probably think that I'm lying. There are a lot of people who think that sleeping at work is a bad idea, but I think it's a lot better than guzzling coffee all day (or taking stronger things). I wouldn't work at a place that didn't allow me to take a nap if necessary. It's not uncommon for me to wake up with the solution to whatever problem I was working on too, so I think it would be wrong to call naps idle time. As an example, using spaced repetition memory software and getting enough sleep is going to be a lot better for your learning than taking aricept and modafinil. On my PhD quals some people seemed to think I was a wizard for the things I memorized. No drugs were involved, but I did read a few books on memory and religiously used spaced repetition software. I wish this attitude were more common.

OtterCoder 9y ago
Seconded. I've chugged an energy drink on the job once, and immediately regretted it. So many people forget that programming is more about thinking than typing, and refuse to let themselves just sit (or nap) and think.
tyagis 9y ago
Pretty interesting! Can you share what is your favorite spaced repetition software?
- btrettel 9y ago
  I prefer Anki, though I started using Mnemosyne. https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://mnemosyne-proj.org/ https://mnemosyne-proj.org/ Both are good. I created most of the cards I use myself, as I only add what is relevant to me. There's also a lot of value in learning about how human memory and learning works. Some parts are like learning how to program your brain. Your brain works well with certain data structures. I'd recommend this book for those interested: https://www.amazon.com/Your-Memory-How-Works-Improve/dp/1569246297 https://www.amazon.com/Your-Memory-How-Works-Improve/dp/1569...

inferiorhuman 9y ago

Stimulants aren't my scene so I don't really know how prevalent they are in tech (but it's never been in my face, at least not compared to when I was in high school). However, marijuana and alcohol are freaking everywhere. Second week at a big company and I had a coworker showing me, among other things, pictures of his pot plantation. Plenty of folks vaped at work (some to the extent that they were incapable of doing their jobs). As for alcohol, San Francisco is a hard drinking town. In other countries if you get a cocktail it will be very carefully measured. Here? Outside of some artisan hipster joints you get hilariously unbalanced drinks. We had a drug/alcohol free policy at work but still had a beer fridge or two. Off-sites were generally open bar. 1:1 meetings? Often at the nearest bar (which typically lasted 1-2 drinks). Weekly team off-site lunches? Booze. First day on the job? Let's go to Kozy Kar (ugh) to celebrate with our high profile investor. Friday night? Let's go to Martuni's and get blitzed. CEO is too drunk to stand? Don't worry he's still good to drive. Hardly Strictly with the coworkers? Sure, let's make a pitcher of margaritas first.

gcb0 9y ago

> Another theme that pops up sometimes is someone who says that they used to take stimulants and they were super productive, but they don't anymore, but actually they still do. or never were. I mean "super" , just regular productive as on "motivated" .