6 ms·

It takes about 3 years to build a DataCenter. Also depending on the type of campus you want to build, the availability of power and contiguous land is fairly l

It takes about 3 years to build a DataCenter. Also depending on the type of campus you want to build, the availability of power and contiguous land is fairly limited. Additionally most web scale DCs are "passively" cooled and require the local environment to support this. We are in a construction boom nationally and it's currently difficult to get enough people to construct DCs. The ability to scale out is limited by construction. Apple is building DCs, they are late to the game, but they probably can't scale their infra fast enough and need to use cloud services as a way to keep scaling without impacting their customers.

tssva 9y ago
Couldn't tell this driving around Loudoun County, VA where I live. Multiple large scale data center developments on going and it seems a new one gets kicked off every couple of weeks. A new 750,000 sq ft data center complex was just approved at the end of January and initial delivery is expected this fall. Such a quick delivery seems to indicate there is plenty of construction resources available.
- walrus01 9y ago
  Based on reports from people I know: Apple already has a great deal of stuff in the NoVA datacenter cluster near Dulles and will most likely not spend any money to put more there. They need to be geographically distributed for latency and reliability reasons.
walrus01 9y ago
There is a middle ground between the two extremes of building your own datacenter from bare land, and using GCP or Azure or similar to host everything. Using WA and Oregon states as an example there's plenty of datacenter companies that will rent you "powered shell" space with cooling to do whatever you want with. There are plenty of datacenter-owning real estate investment trusts that build huge facilities expressly for the purpose of turning around and immediately subleasing space to large third parties. With facilities that are already built and online this can reduce your 3-year timespan to a couple of months from contract execution to thousands of live servers, if the people doing the contracts and technical specs are sharp. For a company the size of Apple, if they do have intentions to 100% own their datacenters, this sort of thing would be a stopgap solution. But it's a possibility.
- scurvy 9y ago
  Google, Facebook, Apple, Salesforce are listed as customers of large wholesalers like DFT. Like you mentioned, it's easier to get someone else to build and run the building (to your specs). Plus there is some anonymity too.
  - walrus01 9y ago
    so I just double checked my memory, and yup, dupont fabros was eaten by Digital Realty Trust. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/digital-realty-to-merge-with-dupont-fabros-in-7-6-billion-deal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/digital-r...
    - scurvy 9y ago
      It adds 20 and 30 year lease stability to DRT's portfolio. DFT still operates under the DFT name for now. Just like telx which was also a DRT acquisition.
scurvy 9y ago
Technically, almost no one builds their own datacenters at this point. The new stuff is built by wholesalers like Dupont Fabros, and companies like Apple sign 20 year leases to be the sole tenant. Same goes for Facebook. The tenant dictates the location and design, but DFT builds and runs it. 15 years ago, everyone large wanted into the datacenter game. Then they realized it sucks to own a lot of land all over and employing mainly security guards and janitors there isn't worth it. Wholesale DC to the rescue. And yeah, I know that Digital Realty bought Dupont.
- jauer 9y ago
  > Same goes for Facebook. Yeah, no. With very few exceptions FB builds and owns their own datacenters. Basically, anything you read about in the news is entirely self-owned and operated. Yes, even employing security guards. E.g. this http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/15/technology/facebook-ohio-data-center/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/15/technology/facebook-ohio-dat...
  - scurvy 9y ago
    No, yeah. Dupont said that 15% of their revenues came from Facebook. It was listed as a risk in their annual report. FB and et al do still build their own DC's. Especially where municipalities drop their pants and offer huge tax breaks. But there's still a tremendous amount of "single tenant" purchasing done at the wholesale level by the hyperscale players. I guess my point is that even at the top tier, people value flexibility.
  - Caveman_Coder 9y ago
    Same goes for Google and Amazon. I'm sure each of these companies may lease out space from another colo for their edge computing needs, but the are primarily using DCs they built, own, operate, and staff.
    - scurvy 9y ago
      They lease in carrier hotels from people like Equinix, Interxion, and Coresite for edge connections and peering. They also buy on the wholesale market taking over entire buildings and campuses. DFT had a great business model. Leasing out entire campuses to hyperscale players on 30 year leases before even breaking ground. Pre-determined interest rates means you know exactly how much you can charge per CRSF and make a good living. Honestly, I was pretty pissed when DRT bought DFT.
mschuster91 9y ago
> It takes about 3 years to build a DataCenter. That definitely depends on where and which kind of data center. If you're willing to take a derelict warehouse and put in containers like Google did, all you need to do is providing power and fiber (which should be plenty in any industrial settings) and you're set in a matter of weeks to months. If you're aiming higher, as in design a DC, buy the ground, build the building itself and then installing all the stuff needed, you're in for much more money and time. Depending on the local politics and laws as well as power/fiber infrastructure, you can cut some corners but the worst-case (uncooperating politicians that need to be brought in line by the courts, the next 110kV transformer being at capacity, no fiber and no empty tubes in the ground which means digging yourself) is the benchmark there.
- Caveman_Coder 9y ago
  > "...the next 110kV transformer being at capacity" They will mostly likely work with the local utility to build an entire substation for the DC, so they won't have to deal with sharing capacity on an existing sub's XFMR.
  - agoodthrowaway 9y ago
    Yep these facilities require >100MW and require their own substations. Hence one reason why it takes so long to build.
    - Caveman_Coder 9y ago
      I'd imagine that the lead time on getting the substation equipment is probably the longest for all of equipment inside a DC. Chillers, UPSs, generators, and breakers are probably not in as high demand or take as long to manufacture as a MV XFMR.
      - sah2ed 9y ago
        Why not shorten the lead time by biding higher for freshly built XFMRs from other countries of the desired capacity?

tssva 9y ago

Couldn't tell this driving around Loudoun County, VA where I live. Multiple large scale data center developments on going and it seems a new one gets kicked off every couple of weeks. A new 750,000 sq ft data center complex was just approved at the end of January and initial delivery is expected this fall. Such a quick delivery seems to indicate there is plenty of construction resources available.

walrus01 9y ago
Based on reports from people I know: Apple already has a great deal of stuff in the NoVA datacenter cluster near Dulles and will most likely not spend any money to put more there. They need to be geographically distributed for latency and reliability reasons.

walrus01 9y ago

There is a middle ground between the two extremes of building your own datacenter from bare land, and using GCP or Azure or similar to host everything. Using WA and Oregon states as an example there's plenty of datacenter companies that will rent you "powered shell" space with cooling to do whatever you want with. There are plenty of datacenter-owning real estate investment trusts that build huge facilities expressly for the purpose of turning around and immediately subleasing space to large third parties. With facilities that are already built and online this can reduce your 3-year timespan to a couple of months from contract execution to thousands of live servers, if the people doing the contracts and technical specs are sharp. For a company the size of Apple, if they do have intentions to 100% own their datacenters, this sort of thing would be a stopgap solution. But it's a possibility.

scurvy 9y ago
Google, Facebook, Apple, Salesforce are listed as customers of large wholesalers like DFT. Like you mentioned, it's easier to get someone else to build and run the building (to your specs). Plus there is some anonymity too.
- walrus01 9y ago
  so I just double checked my memory, and yup, dupont fabros was eaten by Digital Realty Trust. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/digital-realty-to-merge-with-dupont-fabros-in-7-6-billion-deal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/digital-r...
  - scurvy 9y ago
    It adds 20 and 30 year lease stability to DRT's portfolio. DFT still operates under the DFT name for now. Just like telx which was also a DRT acquisition.

scurvy 9y ago

Technically, almost no one builds their own datacenters at this point. The new stuff is built by wholesalers like Dupont Fabros, and companies like Apple sign 20 year leases to be the sole tenant. Same goes for Facebook. The tenant dictates the location and design, but DFT builds and runs it. 15 years ago, everyone large wanted into the datacenter game. Then they realized it sucks to own a lot of land all over and employing mainly security guards and janitors there isn't worth it. Wholesale DC to the rescue. And yeah, I know that Digital Realty bought Dupont.

jauer 9y ago
> Same goes for Facebook. Yeah, no. With very few exceptions FB builds and owns their own datacenters. Basically, anything you read about in the news is entirely self-owned and operated. Yes, even employing security guards. E.g. this http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/15/technology/facebook-ohio-data-center/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/15/technology/facebook-ohio-dat...
- scurvy 9y ago
  No, yeah. Dupont said that 15% of their revenues came from Facebook. It was listed as a risk in their annual report. FB and et al do still build their own DC's. Especially where municipalities drop their pants and offer huge tax breaks. But there's still a tremendous amount of "single tenant" purchasing done at the wholesale level by the hyperscale players. I guess my point is that even at the top tier, people value flexibility.
- Caveman_Coder 9y ago
  Same goes for Google and Amazon. I'm sure each of these companies may lease out space from another colo for their edge computing needs, but the are primarily using DCs they built, own, operate, and staff.
  - scurvy 9y ago
    They lease in carrier hotels from people like Equinix, Interxion, and Coresite for edge connections and peering. They also buy on the wholesale market taking over entire buildings and campuses. DFT had a great business model. Leasing out entire campuses to hyperscale players on 30 year leases before even breaking ground. Pre-determined interest rates means you know exactly how much you can charge per CRSF and make a good living. Honestly, I was pretty pissed when DRT bought DFT.

mschuster91 9y ago

> It takes about 3 years to build a DataCenter. That definitely depends on where and which kind of data center. If you're willing to take a derelict warehouse and put in containers like Google did, all you need to do is providing power and fiber (which should be plenty in any industrial settings) and you're set in a matter of weeks to months. If you're aiming higher, as in design a DC, buy the ground, build the building itself and then installing all the stuff needed, you're in for much more money and time. Depending on the local politics and laws as well as power/fiber infrastructure, you can cut some corners but the worst-case (uncooperating politicians that need to be brought in line by the courts, the next 110kV transformer being at capacity, no fiber and no empty tubes in the ground which means digging yourself) is the benchmark there.

Caveman_Coder 9y ago
> "...the next 110kV transformer being at capacity" They will mostly likely work with the local utility to build an entire substation for the DC, so they won't have to deal with sharing capacity on an existing sub's XFMR.
- agoodthrowaway 9y ago
  Yep these facilities require >100MW and require their own substations. Hence one reason why it takes so long to build.
  - Caveman_Coder 9y ago
    I'd imagine that the lead time on getting the substation equipment is probably the longest for all of equipment inside a DC. Chillers, UPSs, generators, and breakers are probably not in as high demand or take as long to manufacture as a MV XFMR.
    - sah2ed 9y ago
      Why not shorten the lead time by biding higher for freshly built XFMRs from other countries of the desired capacity?