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I really think it's great that they've been able to make this a profitable venture, but I worry about the portability of the message. I've been at small compani

I really think it's great that they've been able to make this a profitable venture, but I worry about the portability of the message. I've been at small companies that failed for lacking focus.. I'd be interested to hear more about how they juggled these projects and how much time and attention they took... especially at such a famously small company.

cedsav 16y ago
I think the key is that they've been in business for 11 years. You need 100% focus to build a profitable business, but once you get the recipe right (and for 37signals, when was that? 5 years ago?), it gets easier and easier to diversify.
- aun 16y ago
  This is extremely relevant. I suspect those of us who are saying "this advice is non-portable" have in our heads the scenario of an unfocused company, taking needed resources away from their main product to put into the development of their "byproducts." Making the correct judgement of when the "byproduct" is sellable is key. The problem is that many companies do not make this judgement correctly. They insist, rather, on "maximizing" everything that is done, to the detriment of their main thing. 37signals themselves have posted about this in the past, sort of: "work on your best idea." If 37signals had been running workshops instead of working on Rails or Basecamp, resulting in fewer people in the Rails community or using Basecamp, then Fried's idea would be bad. They didn't do that -- but from what I'm hearing, many of us have (and are) working for companies that do behave this way, and so Fried's advice sounds bad. It isn't -- it's just missing a crucial component about judgement.
ssharp 16y ago
The message isn't portable if you think the message is "use your office to do workshops". I don't think that's the message here.
- tptacek 16y ago
  You guys all sell yourselves short. Anyone on Hacker News with any technical skill who is running a business that pays for its own decent office space has tons of things to workshop, and as long as you're based on a major metro area, people will sign up. We've done it multiple times. Stop blowing this off.
  - maw 16y ago
    Yes, many probably could. But that doesn't mean that the column's message was primarily about running workshops.
  - points 16y ago
    Doing workshops seems scammy to me. It's like doing popup ads. Sure, you could, but eugh.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      What a head-explodey thing to say. Care to elaborate?
      - nkurz 16y ago
        I tend to agree with 'points', so I'll offer my explanation: Doing expensive one-day workshops might be a great way to make money, but it might be damaging to your brand. To me, it shows that the you are doing everything you can to wring maximum profit out of your existing infrastructure rather than concentrating on improving your core product. It has the same feel as a hot experimental band deciding to license their songs for fast-food commercials --- perhaps a good choice financially, but potentially bad for your image. It has a smell of desperation and greed. As to the 'scammy' part, I'm guessing[1] that not many people are paying for these sessions of out pocket. Rather, they convince their employer to pay, and that it's worth it. This presents a conflict of interest if the turns out to be not worth the money. When your boss asks you if the company's $1000 was well spent, and it was your idea to go, one might feel compelled to say 'yes' and even to go again the following year regardless of any price increases. This said, we'll probably be considering such strategies in the future. I have a food business, and while there is no way we could charge $1000/seat, there probably are some things we could do to boost the bottom line. [1] Jason responds below to point out that most of they are paying directly. I'm surprised, but presume he's right!
lsc 16y ago
But isn't 37signals famous /because/ of their "byproducts?" I mean, I'd never have heard of them but for their extensive blogging. I know when I wrote my book, I figured all the time was coming straight out of the marketing budget. (now, I've yet to properly exploit all the resulting marketing... I'm not saying I got a good deal but it is pretty nice to have the marketing problem solved for the foreseeable future.)

cedsav 16y ago

I think the key is that they've been in business for 11 years. You need 100% focus to build a profitable business, but once you get the recipe right (and for 37signals, when was that? 5 years ago?), it gets easier and easier to diversify.

aun 16y ago
This is extremely relevant. I suspect those of us who are saying "this advice is non-portable" have in our heads the scenario of an unfocused company, taking needed resources away from their main product to put into the development of their "byproducts." Making the correct judgement of when the "byproduct" is sellable is key. The problem is that many companies do not make this judgement correctly. They insist, rather, on "maximizing" everything that is done, to the detriment of their main thing. 37signals themselves have posted about this in the past, sort of: "work on your best idea." If 37signals had been running workshops instead of working on Rails or Basecamp, resulting in fewer people in the Rails community or using Basecamp, then Fried's idea would be bad. They didn't do that -- but from what I'm hearing, many of us have (and are) working for companies that do behave this way, and so Fried's advice sounds bad. It isn't -- it's just missing a crucial component about judgement.

ssharp 16y ago

The message isn't portable if you think the message is "use your office to do workshops". I don't think that's the message here.

tptacek 16y ago
You guys all sell yourselves short. Anyone on Hacker News with any technical skill who is running a business that pays for its own decent office space has tons of things to workshop, and as long as you're based on a major metro area, people will sign up. We've done it multiple times. Stop blowing this off.
- maw 16y ago
  Yes, many probably could. But that doesn't mean that the column's message was primarily about running workshops.
- points 16y ago
  Doing workshops seems scammy to me. It's like doing popup ads. Sure, you could, but eugh.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    What a head-explodey thing to say. Care to elaborate?
    - nkurz 16y ago
      I tend to agree with 'points', so I'll offer my explanation: Doing expensive one-day workshops might be a great way to make money, but it might be damaging to your brand. To me, it shows that the you are doing everything you can to wring maximum profit out of your existing infrastructure rather than concentrating on improving your core product. It has the same feel as a hot experimental band deciding to license their songs for fast-food commercials --- perhaps a good choice financially, but potentially bad for your image. It has a smell of desperation and greed. As to the 'scammy' part, I'm guessing[1] that not many people are paying for these sessions of out pocket. Rather, they convince their employer to pay, and that it's worth it. This presents a conflict of interest if the turns out to be not worth the money. When your boss asks you if the company's $1000 was well spent, and it was your idea to go, one might feel compelled to say 'yes' and even to go again the following year regardless of any price increases. This said, we'll probably be considering such strategies in the future. I have a food business, and while there is no way we could charge $1000/seat, there probably are some things we could do to boost the bottom line. [1] Jason responds below to point out that most of they are paying directly. I'm surprised, but presume he's right!

lsc 16y ago

But isn't 37signals famous /because/ of their "byproducts?" I mean, I'd never have heard of them but for their extensive blogging. I know when I wrote my book, I figured all the time was coming straight out of the marketing budget. (now, I've yet to properly exploit all the resulting marketing... I'm not saying I got a good deal but it is pretty nice to have the marketing problem solved for the foreseeable future.)