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I first wondered if OP means that first answer with the obscure and horrible programming analogy then I found the real answer by Suzanne Sadedine which is an am

I first wondered if OP means that first answer with the obscure and horrible programming analogy then I found the real answer by Suzanne Sadedine which is an amazing read. That was the creepiest part: Some fetal cells find their way through the placenta and into the mother's bloodstream. They will grow in her blood and organs, and even in her brain, for the rest of her life, making her a genetic chimera and this is a wonderful summary of evolution: In other words, it's just the kind of effect natural selection is renowned for: odd, hackish solutions that work to solve proximate problems

mirimir 9y ago
That is an amazing explanation of primate pregnancy and menstruation. Another extremely creepy aspect is how the placenta burrows into the endometrium. It sounds a lot like tumor angiogenesis, doesn't it? Indeed, the fetus sounds like the alien ones in Alien. An unwanted fetus is rather like an attacker. Especially in light of conflicting selection pressure.
- newnewpdro 9y ago
  Funny that you should mention tumor angiogenesis. Two of my female friends were diagnosed with Uterine Fibroids [1] in their 30s, and both their doctors said basically the same thing in recommending hysterectomy - paraphrasing: "The uterus is good for two things, growing babies and growing tumors." Apparently these are extremely common, and hormonal birth control exacerbates the problem by making the body behave as if it's constantly pregnant. Both of my friends were angry about having been casually prescribed birth control pills as teens without being clearly informed of it increasing the probability of this outcome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_fibroid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_fibroid
  - ShabbosGoy 9y ago
    Intuitively, it makes sense. Life and growth are inextricably linked, as are death and destruction. Unrestricted cellular growth leads to cancer/tumors, unrestricted cellular destruction also leads to cancer, but of autoimmune origin.
  - seszett 9y ago
    On the topic of birth control, your Wikipedia links though says that "The incidence of uterine fibroids in Europe is thought to be lower than the incidence in the US." Since hormonal birth control is much more common in Europe than in the US, that would seem to hint that uterine fibroids are not directly linked to hormonal birth control. On the contrary, the pill seems to help prevent them instead[1]. When I lived in Canada I was always surprised how much people seemed to fear the pill when it has been something completely normal in Europe for two generations already. I'm still not sure why there is this difference of attitude between the two sides of the Atlantic. [1]http://www.bmj.com/content/293/6543/359 http://www.bmj.com/content/293/6543/359
    - newnewpdro 9y ago
      This is not a topic I have researched one iota. My post was simply sharing what these women shared with me about their experiences with their respective doctors. However, it takes little effort to find contradictory information on the subject via google: "Medical practitioners believe and research has recognized the increased levels of estrogen generated by the body preparing for pregnancy and preventative medicines like birth control have a correlation between the cause and effect of uterine fibroids." "There are two major components known for stimulating the growth of fibroids; estrogen and progesterone. Birth control pills contain both of these elements causing the medical industry to take additional steps in studying the levels of estrogen and the potential rate of fibroid enlargement caused by a women’s use of prescribed birth control pills." taken from https://fibroids.com/blog/fact-fiction-birth-control-can-cause-fibroids/ https://fibroids.com/blog/fact-fiction-birth-control-can-cau... Considering the amount of revenue hormonal birth control generates for pharmaceutical companies, it would not surprise me in the least to discover behaviors resembling the tobacco industry's misinformation campaigns to protect those revenues.
      - Spooky23 9y ago
        Birth control pills are mostly generic and super cheap. The name brand ones are expensive due to the click wheel package.
- sundvor 9y ago
  Awesome and chilling read. I'm so not sharing this with my wife until after we have our second and final baby in a few weeks. ;)
biddlesby 9y ago
In other words, it's just the kind of effect natural selection is renowned for: odd, hackish solutions that work to solve proximate problems Funny, this is industry-accepted programming practice too. I'm going to call it "evolutionary programming" from now on :D.
- ada1981 9y ago
  Arm the teachers?
nasredin 9y ago
So a part of me is literally attached to my mum's brain? The wallet-controlling part I'm guessing.
- dang 9y ago
  Please don't do this here.
Terr_ 9y ago
I came across this essay a while back titled "War in the Womb" which brings up game game-theory components to the two systems "fighting". https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-bet...
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  Previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8155153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8155153 I reposted it before seeing your comment because it has been 4 years. My how time flies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16464485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16464485
- Ygg2 9y ago
  I doubt it's all black and white as you tell it: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21185-fetus-donates-stem-cells-to-heal-mothers-heart/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21185-fetus-donates-s... If the mother's body leaves fetal cells alone, they have can act as essentially free stem cells, helping repairs. I forget the exact journal, but women that had like two or three kids, live longer on average than those that didn't.
  - ajuc 9y ago
    > women that had like two or three kids, live longer on average than those that didn't Can't have 3 kids if you died at age of 10.
    - mtgex 9y ago
      While that's true, the context of the statement makes it clear that's not what's being discussed at all.
    - Ygg2 9y ago
      I assume they looked at groups of women, and controlled for partner presence.
  - 9y ago
vanderZwan 9y ago
> I first wondered if OP means that first answer with the obscure and horrible programming analogy It's also factually wrong. > Ever heard of the concept of interrupts? Basically these are functions that are executed immediately, whenever a specific condition occurs. These are one of the better ways of responding to a stimulus. > Now, our body (the female's body) does not have interrupts. > So what it does it set a while loop and in each while loop it checks for the presence of a fertilized egg. We do have "interrupts". The brain floods the blood vessels with all kinds of hormones for an immediate call to action all the time. It's called the fear response. We'd be completely screwed if we had to rely on a "while loop" for that: getting run over while crossing the street would be the norm, because we'd lack the impulse to draw our attention away from our thoughts. In theory, females could spontaneously ovulate when they have sex. Heck, in theory the brain could have evolved to decide whether or not it wants to. Nothing in Suzanne Sadedin's explanation gets in the way of this either. That would be an interesting shift in power balance - it's like the pill, but without hormonal hacks or dependency on external support. This may be the best example of mansplaining I have ever seen: a tech guy posts a completely unsourced hypothesis as fact, but if you're a nerd with déformation professionnelle, it has a compelling narrative[0]. A woman who is an expert in the matter (PhD in evolutionary biology!) posts a long explanation with sources, the topic is female physiology. Yet which answer is shown first? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnel...
- tomp 9y ago
  > mansplaining Don't be sexist. Maybe it's because his answer is shorter and hers exceedlingly long? Or is it because people like analogies (even wrong ones) more than scientific references?
  - vanderZwan 9y ago
    What you are talking about is that people decided his answer is the best one. Which is the part where society encourages mansplaining. Note that this is Quora, supposedly a place where people have higher education and understand the importance of references and fact-checking. There is an important distinction between structural sexism and individual sexism. And doing something that is sexist, racist, homophobic, you name it, is not necessarily tied to intent nor to consciously believing women/ethnic minorities/LGBTQ people are worth less than straight cis-male white guys. Mansplaining is when a man does not realise that they don't know what they are talking about and just posit their own narrative as fact. It is a result of society's gender norms training them to do so. For men to be considered "real men", telling a compelling story with confidence is more important than bing correct - the scientifically appropriate level of self-doubt and "well this is what we know, here are my sources" is not "manly". This is Toxic Masculinity in a nutshell: societal norms for what it means to be a "real man" that are detrimental to society and all genders - there are plenty of things that guys should do to prove they are "real men" that are detrimental to them too. His answer and the societal norms that lead him to that thought process to post that answer, are an example of a toxic norm that most people aren't even consciously aware of. The sooner we acknowledge that and fix this, the sooner we are all liberated from structural sexism and toxic masculinity (and I do mean all - I feel very inhibited by toxic masculinity as a guy, and I think all men are). Arush's answer is an example of mansplaining. The fact that it is about menstruation makes it even more ironic. That does not make him an asshole, nor someone who believes women are inferior to men - he acknowledges Saredin's answer as excellent. It just makes him unaware of all the structurally sexist norms that he subconsciously is bound to. And the same applies to the people who voted for his answers unaware.

mirimir 9y ago

That is an amazing explanation of primate pregnancy and menstruation. Another extremely creepy aspect is how the placenta burrows into the endometrium. It sounds a lot like tumor angiogenesis, doesn't it? Indeed, the fetus sounds like the alien ones in Alien. An unwanted fetus is rather like an attacker. Especially in light of conflicting selection pressure.

newnewpdro 9y ago
Funny that you should mention tumor angiogenesis. Two of my female friends were diagnosed with Uterine Fibroids [1] in their 30s, and both their doctors said basically the same thing in recommending hysterectomy - paraphrasing: "The uterus is good for two things, growing babies and growing tumors." Apparently these are extremely common, and hormonal birth control exacerbates the problem by making the body behave as if it's constantly pregnant. Both of my friends were angry about having been casually prescribed birth control pills as teens without being clearly informed of it increasing the probability of this outcome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_fibroid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_fibroid
- ShabbosGoy 9y ago
  Intuitively, it makes sense. Life and growth are inextricably linked, as are death and destruction. Unrestricted cellular growth leads to cancer/tumors, unrestricted cellular destruction also leads to cancer, but of autoimmune origin.
- seszett 9y ago
  On the topic of birth control, your Wikipedia links though says that "The incidence of uterine fibroids in Europe is thought to be lower than the incidence in the US." Since hormonal birth control is much more common in Europe than in the US, that would seem to hint that uterine fibroids are not directly linked to hormonal birth control. On the contrary, the pill seems to help prevent them instead[1]. When I lived in Canada I was always surprised how much people seemed to fear the pill when it has been something completely normal in Europe for two generations already. I'm still not sure why there is this difference of attitude between the two sides of the Atlantic. [1]http://www.bmj.com/content/293/6543/359 http://www.bmj.com/content/293/6543/359
  - newnewpdro 9y ago
    This is not a topic I have researched one iota. My post was simply sharing what these women shared with me about their experiences with their respective doctors. However, it takes little effort to find contradictory information on the subject via google: "Medical practitioners believe and research has recognized the increased levels of estrogen generated by the body preparing for pregnancy and preventative medicines like birth control have a correlation between the cause and effect of uterine fibroids." "There are two major components known for stimulating the growth of fibroids; estrogen and progesterone. Birth control pills contain both of these elements causing the medical industry to take additional steps in studying the levels of estrogen and the potential rate of fibroid enlargement caused by a women’s use of prescribed birth control pills." taken from https://fibroids.com/blog/fact-fiction-birth-control-can-cause-fibroids/ https://fibroids.com/blog/fact-fiction-birth-control-can-cau... Considering the amount of revenue hormonal birth control generates for pharmaceutical companies, it would not surprise me in the least to discover behaviors resembling the tobacco industry's misinformation campaigns to protect those revenues.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      Birth control pills are mostly generic and super cheap. The name brand ones are expensive due to the click wheel package.
sundvor 9y ago
Awesome and chilling read. I'm so not sharing this with my wife until after we have our second and final baby in a few weeks. ;)

biddlesby 9y ago

In other words, it's just the kind of effect natural selection is renowned for: odd, hackish solutions that work to solve proximate problems Funny, this is industry-accepted programming practice too. I'm going to call it "evolutionary programming" from now on :D.

ada1981 9y ago
Arm the teachers?

nasredin 9y ago

So a part of me is literally attached to my mum's brain? The wallet-controlling part I'm guessing.

dang 9y ago
Please don't do this here.

Terr_ 9y ago

I came across this essay a while back titled "War in the Womb" which brings up game game-theory components to the two systems "fighting". https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-bet...

DoreenMichele 9y ago
Previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8155153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8155153 I reposted it before seeing your comment because it has been 4 years. My how time flies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16464485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16464485
Ygg2 9y ago
I doubt it's all black and white as you tell it: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21185-fetus-donates-stem-cells-to-heal-mothers-heart/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21185-fetus-donates-s... If the mother's body leaves fetal cells alone, they have can act as essentially free stem cells, helping repairs. I forget the exact journal, but women that had like two or three kids, live longer on average than those that didn't.
- ajuc 9y ago
  > women that had like two or three kids, live longer on average than those that didn't Can't have 3 kids if you died at age of 10.
  - mtgex 9y ago
    While that's true, the context of the statement makes it clear that's not what's being discussed at all.
  - Ygg2 9y ago
    I assume they looked at groups of women, and controlled for partner presence.
- 9y ago

vanderZwan 9y ago

> I first wondered if OP means that first answer with the obscure and horrible programming analogy It's also factually wrong. > Ever heard of the concept of interrupts? Basically these are functions that are executed immediately, whenever a specific condition occurs. These are one of the better ways of responding to a stimulus. > Now, our body (the female's body) does not have interrupts. > So what it does it set a while loop and in each while loop it checks for the presence of a fertilized egg. We do have "interrupts". The brain floods the blood vessels with all kinds of hormones for an immediate call to action all the time. It's called the fear response. We'd be completely screwed if we had to rely on a "while loop" for that: getting run over while crossing the street would be the norm, because we'd lack the impulse to draw our attention away from our thoughts. In theory, females could spontaneously ovulate when they have sex. Heck, in theory the brain could have evolved to decide whether or not it wants to. Nothing in Suzanne Sadedin's explanation gets in the way of this either. That would be an interesting shift in power balance - it's like the pill, but without hormonal hacks or dependency on external support. This may be the best example of mansplaining I have ever seen: a tech guy posts a completely unsourced hypothesis as fact, but if you're a nerd with déformation professionnelle, it has a compelling narrative[0]. A woman who is an expert in the matter (PhD in evolutionary biology!) posts a long explanation with sources, the topic is female physiology. Yet which answer is shown first? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnel...

tomp 9y ago
> mansplaining Don't be sexist. Maybe it's because his answer is shorter and hers exceedlingly long? Or is it because people like analogies (even wrong ones) more than scientific references?
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  What you are talking about is that people decided his answer is the best one. Which is the part where society encourages mansplaining. Note that this is Quora, supposedly a place where people have higher education and understand the importance of references and fact-checking. There is an important distinction between structural sexism and individual sexism. And doing something that is sexist, racist, homophobic, you name it, is not necessarily tied to intent nor to consciously believing women/ethnic minorities/LGBTQ people are worth less than straight cis-male white guys. Mansplaining is when a man does not realise that they don't know what they are talking about and just posit their own narrative as fact. It is a result of society's gender norms training them to do so. For men to be considered "real men", telling a compelling story with confidence is more important than bing correct - the scientifically appropriate level of self-doubt and "well this is what we know, here are my sources" is not "manly". This is Toxic Masculinity in a nutshell: societal norms for what it means to be a "real man" that are detrimental to society and all genders - there are plenty of things that guys should do to prove they are "real men" that are detrimental to them too. His answer and the societal norms that lead him to that thought process to post that answer, are an example of a toxic norm that most people aren't even consciously aware of. The sooner we acknowledge that and fix this, the sooner we are all liberated from structural sexism and toxic masculinity (and I do mean all - I feel very inhibited by toxic masculinity as a guy, and I think all men are). Arush's answer is an example of mansplaining. The fact that it is about menstruation makes it even more ironic. That does not make him an asshole, nor someone who believes women are inferior to men - he acknowledges Saredin's answer as excellent. It just makes him unaware of all the structurally sexist norms that he subconsciously is bound to. And the same applies to the people who voted for his answers unaware.