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>But the fact that you were forced to turn up means your freedom has already been compromised. That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can s

>But the fact that you were forced to turn up means your freedom has already been compromised. That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can settle our conflicts before an impartial judge instead of by the law of the jungle. Anyone can sue you and make you (or your lawyer) show up in court. >Small debts are also a symptom of a one-sided system. Civilised people usually settle small matters without going to the courts. Courts have to be making things pretty easy for creditors before that becomes a cost-effective way of collecting small debts. If you make it harder for creditors to collect on small debts, then you will make it harder and more expensive for the poor to get access to credit.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago
That's absurd. Just recently in Indiana a law was changed allowing up to 400% interest. Harder? Fat chance. They'll just get the laws changed to screw people over further. Of course it'll be in the name of "access to credit".
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  "I'll give you $100 today if you pay me back $110 next week. And I don't care about your awful credit score." That's over 500% annualized interest, but it's not very unreasonable for an unsecured short term loan to a person with bad credit.
  - jopsen 9y ago
    it might be a reasonable business proposition if all players were rational, but parent trying to put food on the table aren't rational. I can't fault them for that. Sadly, it's not profitable to help people.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      You don't get to decide what levels of interest are "rational" for other people to take on.
      - jopsen 9y ago
        Should you get to exploit people who are desperate?
        jstanley 9y ago
        If they really want $100 right now, and are happy to pay $110 back next week, I don't see offering that to them as exploitative.
        crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        Then perhaps you ought to understand underlying motivations rather than seeing everyone 100% logical robots with complete awareness of situation. Its not the rational and logical who use payday loans with similar interest. Its the single parent families. There's children involved, power threatened to being turned off. There's a car repair needed for they can work. You know, poverty. And your excuses are just that- rational justification to fuck over poor people trying to make the best of bad answers.
        jstanley 9y ago
        If someone really needs a loan of $100 to keep the power from being turned off, is denying them a loan for $100 in the best interest of the children? I don't think so. If you don't give them the loan, the power will definitely be turned off. If you give them the loan, they can pay the power bill.
        jopsen 9y ago
        You can't help poor people and make money. Or at least that's very hard. If a family needs a few bucks to make things go round we should help. But trying to make money helping is likely to be counter productive. Yes, you need the state to step in. And no when you phrase it as people exploiting the system, it won't help either ;)
        9y ago
  - CaptainZapp 9y ago
    I dare say that this really depends where you live. Herearound any extension of credit with an annual interest rate above 15% is considered usury, which is a criminal offense.
adrianratnapala 9y ago
> That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can settle our conflicts before an impartial judge instead of by the law of the jungle. Anyone can sue you and make you (or your lawyer) show up in court. But in a healthy system, it only happens when they have a substantial claim and a real belief they will win; because otherwise it is costly to them. There are normally strong incentives to settle privately. And that too is part-and-parcel of living in a civilised society. The rule of law requires that officials, or those who influence them, do so in an orderly way and don't just wield it like a stick.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago

That's absurd. Just recently in Indiana a law was changed allowing up to 400% interest. Harder? Fat chance. They'll just get the laws changed to screw people over further. Of course it'll be in the name of "access to credit".

marcoperaza 9y ago
"I'll give you $100 today if you pay me back $110 next week. And I don't care about your awful credit score." That's over 500% annualized interest, but it's not very unreasonable for an unsecured short term loan to a person with bad credit.
- jopsen 9y ago
  it might be a reasonable business proposition if all players were rational, but parent trying to put food on the table aren't rational. I can't fault them for that. Sadly, it's not profitable to help people.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    You don't get to decide what levels of interest are "rational" for other people to take on.
    - jopsen 9y ago
      Should you get to exploit people who are desperate?
      - jstanley 9y ago
        If they really want $100 right now, and are happy to pay $110 back next week, I don't see offering that to them as exploitative.
        crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        Then perhaps you ought to understand underlying motivations rather than seeing everyone 100% logical robots with complete awareness of situation. Its not the rational and logical who use payday loans with similar interest. Its the single parent families. There's children involved, power threatened to being turned off. There's a car repair needed for they can work. You know, poverty. And your excuses are just that- rational justification to fuck over poor people trying to make the best of bad answers.
        jstanley 9y ago
        If someone really needs a loan of $100 to keep the power from being turned off, is denying them a loan for $100 in the best interest of the children? I don't think so. If you don't give them the loan, the power will definitely be turned off. If you give them the loan, they can pay the power bill.
        jopsen 9y ago
        You can't help poor people and make money. Or at least that's very hard. If a family needs a few bucks to make things go round we should help. But trying to make money helping is likely to be counter productive. Yes, you need the state to step in. And no when you phrase it as people exploiting the system, it won't help either ;)
        9y ago
- CaptainZapp 9y ago
  I dare say that this really depends where you live. Herearound any extension of credit with an annual interest rate above 15% is considered usury, which is a criminal offense.

adrianratnapala 9y ago

> That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can settle our conflicts before an impartial judge instead of by the law of the jungle. Anyone can sue you and make you (or your lawyer) show up in court. But in a healthy system, it only happens when they have a substantial claim and a real belief they will win; because otherwise it is costly to them. There are normally strong incentives to settle privately. And that too is part-and-parcel of living in a civilised society. The rule of law requires that officials, or those who influence them, do so in an orderly way and don't just wield it like a stick.