5 ms·

52% of network architects don't have a degree but 95% of app developers do? This is the exact opposite as I would expect.

closeparen 9y ago
A network architect is an experienced technician (the "blue-collar" form of IT) who graduated from help desk and break/fix to helping out with project work to getting to design and lead projects. In that world, you may have a trade-school degree in IT/MIS and/or vendor certifications, but a CS degree isn't going to help you operate the Windows Server admin panel, configure Cisco routers, know which model number of HP switch is appropriate for a situation, or make sure that your underlings get the low-voltage cabling and patch panels right. It's going to help you write Windows Server and the router firmware that technicians operate. Planning, installing, configuring, and integrating off-the-shelf components to create an IT environment for a business is a totally different world from software engineering, particularly in the Silicon Valley style.
- anonytrary 9y ago
  Thanks, this is very clear now. I must have been confusing "network architect" with "software architect".
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rhizome 9y ago
Sysadmins are also historically a non-degree position, because there is no degree for it. People who come out of university with the skills and interest to go into systems or neteng often have learned through working for the university's IT department, not through classwork.
- lsc 9y ago
  >Sysadmins are also historically a non-degree position, because there is no degree for it. Sure there is. Computer information systems. Management information systems. Computer Information Technology. Now, as far as I can tell, these are degrees usually offered at community colleges and lower status four year schools. And for that matter, I've spent much of my career as a sysadmin, and the only people I've met with those degrees have been managers who have moved in from other industries rather than moving up. But the degrees exist, even if Stanford or Berkeley probably won't offer them.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rhizome 9y ago
    In my experience, the dominant source of people I've seen come through admin channels on IRC are those who arrived there through running e.g. their own game servers. In my experience, the degree/certs you mention are chiefly offered through the business schools where they're offered and are indeed the domain of middle managers. There can be electrical engineering in neteng, but really only at the upper levels.
  - drewbug01 9y ago
    > Sure there is. Computer information systems. Management information systems. Computer Information Technology. The last time I looked into these degrees, they didn't teach many of the skills I use in my sysadmin ("devops" these days) work. There _are_ some degrees for it, however - http://nsa.rit.edu/ http://nsa.rit.edu/ for example. But not many.
  - solidsnack9000 9y ago
    It's rare to see anyone with this training who can install Gentoo. ...the only people I've met with those degrees have been managers who have moved in from other industries rather than moving up. This is telling.

closeparen 9y ago

A network architect is an experienced technician (the "blue-collar" form of IT) who graduated from help desk and break/fix to helping out with project work to getting to design and lead projects. In that world, you may have a trade-school degree in IT/MIS and/or vendor certifications, but a CS degree isn't going to help you operate the Windows Server admin panel, configure Cisco routers, know which model number of HP switch is appropriate for a situation, or make sure that your underlings get the low-voltage cabling and patch panels right. It's going to help you write Windows Server and the router firmware that technicians operate. Planning, installing, configuring, and integrating off-the-shelf components to create an IT environment for a business is a totally different world from software engineering, particularly in the Silicon Valley style.

anonytrary 9y ago
Thanks, this is very clear now. I must have been confusing "network architect" with "software architect".

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rhizome 9y ago

Sysadmins are also historically a non-degree position, because there is no degree for it. People who come out of university with the skills and interest to go into systems or neteng often have learned through working for the university's IT department, not through classwork.

lsc 9y ago
>Sysadmins are also historically a non-degree position, because there is no degree for it. Sure there is. Computer information systems. Management information systems. Computer Information Technology. Now, as far as I can tell, these are degrees usually offered at community colleges and lower status four year schools. And for that matter, I've spent much of my career as a sysadmin, and the only people I've met with those degrees have been managers who have moved in from other industries rather than moving up. But the degrees exist, even if Stanford or Berkeley probably won't offer them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- rhizome 9y ago
  In my experience, the dominant source of people I've seen come through admin channels on IRC are those who arrived there through running e.g. their own game servers. In my experience, the degree/certs you mention are chiefly offered through the business schools where they're offered and are indeed the domain of middle managers. There can be electrical engineering in neteng, but really only at the upper levels.
- drewbug01 9y ago
  > Sure there is. Computer information systems. Management information systems. Computer Information Technology. The last time I looked into these degrees, they didn't teach many of the skills I use in my sysadmin ("devops" these days) work. There _are_ some degrees for it, however - http://nsa.rit.edu/ http://nsa.rit.edu/ for example. But not many.
- solidsnack9000 9y ago
  It's rare to see anyone with this training who can install Gentoo. ...the only people I've met with those degrees have been managers who have moved in from other industries rather than moving up. This is telling.