4 ms·

Disagree. I had a startup selling a piece of software that immediately solved a major problem for a small niche of users. Paid for conversions on common search

Disagree. I had a startup selling a piece of software that immediately solved a major problem for a small niche of users. Paid for conversions on common search terms and they were ROI positive since each click converted at 25% to signup, and then the product spread around the companies where one user adopted. Sold the company for >$10m.

dylanha 9y ago
How did you find the niche? Any reading material I should see?
- ggg9990 9y ago
  I had a CS degree but was working outside the field in pharmaceuticals. I was having the problem myself and wrote a crazy Excel spreadsheet with tens of thousands of lines of poorly written copy pasted code to do it. I knew that there would be a market for it so I contacted an old classmate of mine who rewrote it much better as a web service. That is why I think CS and software engineering should be part of every college degree, so that people can see the opportunity for software where it exists. I wasn’t good enough to be a programmer but I had enough knowledge to see an opportunity whereas most people thought “hm, this is just how this is done.”
  - nathan_f77 9y ago
    Reminds me of this AMA answer by @patio11 [1] > Here's an exercise you can do: do you understand what a life insurance agent does all day every day? Make it your mission for a week to do so, well enough to explain it to a close friend who has no access to your sources. All you have to do to learn this is read and make conversations happen. (People are happy to talk to you!) I really need to take that seriously, and talk to people in a lot of different industries. [1] https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/im-patio11-patrick-mckenzie-creator-of-appointment-reminder-ama-fb96fd1f86?commentId=-L5qqQU1KexqFnGATD7I https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/im-patio11-patrick-mckenz...
282883392 9y ago
Sounds like that was more of great product than a successful advertising campaign, even if it did help.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  The product always needs to be good. But targeted ads such as on Google allow entire categories of businesses to exist. My company would have never been started without Google AdWords - there would have simply been no cost effective way to find the users who needed the product.
  - rsync 9y ago
    "The product always needs to be good. But targeted ads such as on Google allow entire categories of businesses to exist." With regard to niches, my experience has been the opposite. If your niche is small enough, you can't properly bid on adwords for rare keywords because they are flagged as "low quality" and you are forced to either abandon those keywords or pay 10x for them to show. This, of course, defies the entire raison d'etre of adwords - the whole purpose of which is (presumably) to bid on a keyword that targets that one rare person that searched for that. But it can't be done - if only 5 or 10 people search for a phrase or keyword every day, it cannot be bid on properly.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      I don’t know about the 5 to 10 search a day volume level - I was quite a bit above this. But I agree that if they don’t serve that volume level well, it’s sad and aggravating. That should be something that can really help people who are out of other options. Might it be a privacy issue? If an ad can be targeted to that level it can be used to address a single individual.
      - sah2ed 9y ago
        > If an ad can be targeted to that level it can be used to address a single individual. Alec Brownstein did exactly that by ad targeting his favorite creative directors' names some years back in order to land a job. It worked. https://mashable.com/2010/05/13/job-google-ad-words/#GvW9atlXmaqO https://mashable.com/2010/05/13/job-google-ad-words/#GvW9atl...
nodamage 9y ago
Just curious how much the software cost?
- ggg9990 9y ago
  Individual contracts around $50,000 per year per customer.
  - nathan_f77 9y ago
    And you were getting these customers from AdWords campaigns, instead of high-touch sales? That's incredible.
    - danieltillett 9y ago
      If true, an incredibly bad sales process. If you have a product that can be sold for $50K via Adwords and you don't also use high touch sales you are an idiot.
      - nathan_f77 9y ago
        Hmm, that’s true. Thanks for your comment, you inspired me to think about creating a platform for independent sales agents, and then I found commissioncrowd.com. I’ve signed up and booked a call with one of their representives. I’ve been putting off sales, but I really need to take that seriously.
        danieltillett 9y ago
        My company sells niche high value software in the same value ball park as the OP and the only thing that works is high touch sales. My advice is stay away from outsourced sales. It is possible that you might find a good one, but you are more likely to find the secret of how to turn lead into gold. The major problem you will have starting out is good sales people won't work for a business without an established sales process. Of course without good sales people it is hard to establish an effective sales process (nice catch 22). You are probably best grabbing someone new and keen and hitting the road with them until you have an established process that works. Then hire sales people.
nathan_f77 9y ago
Wow, that's awesome! I have a product that also solves a problem for a small niche of users [1], but I think my niche is a bit smaller than yours. I recently increased the AdWords budget and I'm trying a lot of different ads to see what works. Anyway, thanks for sharing your story, that's really encouraging. [1] https://formapi.io https://formapi.io

dylanha 9y ago

How did you find the niche? Any reading material I should see?

ggg9990 9y ago
I had a CS degree but was working outside the field in pharmaceuticals. I was having the problem myself and wrote a crazy Excel spreadsheet with tens of thousands of lines of poorly written copy pasted code to do it. I knew that there would be a market for it so I contacted an old classmate of mine who rewrote it much better as a web service. That is why I think CS and software engineering should be part of every college degree, so that people can see the opportunity for software where it exists. I wasn’t good enough to be a programmer but I had enough knowledge to see an opportunity whereas most people thought “hm, this is just how this is done.”
- nathan_f77 9y ago
  Reminds me of this AMA answer by @patio11 [1] > Here's an exercise you can do: do you understand what a life insurance agent does all day every day? Make it your mission for a week to do so, well enough to explain it to a close friend who has no access to your sources. All you have to do to learn this is read and make conversations happen. (People are happy to talk to you!) I really need to take that seriously, and talk to people in a lot of different industries. [1] https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/im-patio11-patrick-mckenzie-creator-of-appointment-reminder-ama-fb96fd1f86?commentId=-L5qqQU1KexqFnGATD7I https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/im-patio11-patrick-mckenz...

282883392 9y ago

Sounds like that was more of great product than a successful advertising campaign, even if it did help.

ggg9990 9y ago
The product always needs to be good. But targeted ads such as on Google allow entire categories of businesses to exist. My company would have never been started without Google AdWords - there would have simply been no cost effective way to find the users who needed the product.
- rsync 9y ago
  "The product always needs to be good. But targeted ads such as on Google allow entire categories of businesses to exist." With regard to niches, my experience has been the opposite. If your niche is small enough, you can't properly bid on adwords for rare keywords because they are flagged as "low quality" and you are forced to either abandon those keywords or pay 10x for them to show. This, of course, defies the entire raison d'etre of adwords - the whole purpose of which is (presumably) to bid on a keyword that targets that one rare person that searched for that. But it can't be done - if only 5 or 10 people search for a phrase or keyword every day, it cannot be bid on properly.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    I don’t know about the 5 to 10 search a day volume level - I was quite a bit above this. But I agree that if they don’t serve that volume level well, it’s sad and aggravating. That should be something that can really help people who are out of other options. Might it be a privacy issue? If an ad can be targeted to that level it can be used to address a single individual.
    - sah2ed 9y ago
      > If an ad can be targeted to that level it can be used to address a single individual. Alec Brownstein did exactly that by ad targeting his favorite creative directors' names some years back in order to land a job. It worked. https://mashable.com/2010/05/13/job-google-ad-words/#GvW9atlXmaqO https://mashable.com/2010/05/13/job-google-ad-words/#GvW9atl...

nodamage 9y ago

Just curious how much the software cost?

ggg9990 9y ago
Individual contracts around $50,000 per year per customer.
- nathan_f77 9y ago
  And you were getting these customers from AdWords campaigns, instead of high-touch sales? That's incredible.
  - danieltillett 9y ago
    If true, an incredibly bad sales process. If you have a product that can be sold for $50K via Adwords and you don't also use high touch sales you are an idiot.
    - nathan_f77 9y ago
      Hmm, that’s true. Thanks for your comment, you inspired me to think about creating a platform for independent sales agents, and then I found commissioncrowd.com. I’ve signed up and booked a call with one of their representives. I’ve been putting off sales, but I really need to take that seriously.
      - danieltillett 9y ago
        My company sells niche high value software in the same value ball park as the OP and the only thing that works is high touch sales. My advice is stay away from outsourced sales. It is possible that you might find a good one, but you are more likely to find the secret of how to turn lead into gold. The major problem you will have starting out is good sales people won't work for a business without an established sales process. Of course without good sales people it is hard to establish an effective sales process (nice catch 22). You are probably best grabbing someone new and keen and hitting the road with them until you have an established process that works. Then hire sales people.

nathan_f77 9y ago

Wow, that's awesome! I have a product that also solves a problem for a small niche of users [1], but I think my niche is a bit smaller than yours. I recently increased the AdWords budget and I'm trying a lot of different ads to see what works. Anyway, thanks for sharing your story, that's really encouraging. [1] https://formapi.io https://formapi.io