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>Isn't a DSL just syntactic sugar in most cases? Maybe. But you probably have a programming language that you like to use when building Web apps, and another t

by Volt 9y ago

>Isn't a DSL just syntactic sugar in most cases? Maybe. But you probably have a programming language that you like to use when building Web apps, and another that you like to use when building command-line utilities. The differences aren't usually just the libraries available, but how easy it is to express certain solutions.

8ytecoder 9y ago
Nailed it. As you work longer on a project you'll realise patterns emerging. It's the same behavior repeated again and again. Take Rails for example, it is where it is because someone saw the patterns for a webapp and made a framework that conceptualizes it. It's something that's not appreciated very well. The concepts serve a vital purpose in organising your thinking in the problem domain.
- hyperion2010 9y ago
  In a sense a DSL lets burried implicit knowledge become enshrined more formally (even if it is still implicit in a way) so that people don't keep making the same mistakes over and over because they are presented with tools where all the footguns haven't been safely dealt with. Consider how many people make the same mistakes over and over and over again because they go back to html, css, an js which give ZERO constraints on what one ought to do with them to make a useable website. Now imagine that we had been growing the language for writing websites so that new users literally could not write code that would footgun themselves into oblivion.
  - nightski 9y ago
    Your examples amuse me because CSS & HTML are essentially DSLs :) I have to agree with the parent, well designed abstractions and functions in my opinion go 99% of the way towards providing the same benefits as a DSL without the additional complexity.
    - hyperion2010 9y ago
      Yes DSLs for constructing and styling a hypertext document, but as soon as we go beyond the simple document model of the web they are like handing someone a chainsaw and asking them to sculpt a chair that will be comfortable to sit in. Some people can do it with just the chainsaw and a lot of practice. However, in order to get most people to not damage themselves or the people who may someday try to sit in the chair, you have to create a robot to control the chainsaw. What you probably wanted was not a chainsaw attached to a robot, but rather a lathe, a plane, and some chisels, and some other hand tools.
      - heavenlyblue 9y ago
        I believe what you’re trying to say is that every product has it’s own lifetime.
        hyperion2010 9y ago
        Not really lifetimes, even a stone hammer like one used 30k years ago is still useful in the right context (I still find html and css quite useful for what they were originally intended for). More that even very powerful tools have a niche or set of use cases where they excel, and outside that nice other tools are likely to be more empowering to their wielder.

by Volt 9y ago

8ytecoder 9y ago

Nailed it. As you work longer on a project you'll realise patterns emerging. It's the same behavior repeated again and again. Take Rails for example, it is where it is because someone saw the patterns for a webapp and made a framework that conceptualizes it. It's something that's not appreciated very well. The concepts serve a vital purpose in organising your thinking in the problem domain.

hyperion2010 9y ago
In a sense a DSL lets burried implicit knowledge become enshrined more formally (even if it is still implicit in a way) so that people don't keep making the same mistakes over and over because they are presented with tools where all the footguns haven't been safely dealt with. Consider how many people make the same mistakes over and over and over again because they go back to html, css, an js which give ZERO constraints on what one ought to do with them to make a useable website. Now imagine that we had been growing the language for writing websites so that new users literally could not write code that would footgun themselves into oblivion.
- nightski 9y ago
  Your examples amuse me because CSS & HTML are essentially DSLs :) I have to agree with the parent, well designed abstractions and functions in my opinion go 99% of the way towards providing the same benefits as a DSL without the additional complexity.
  - hyperion2010 9y ago
    Yes DSLs for constructing and styling a hypertext document, but as soon as we go beyond the simple document model of the web they are like handing someone a chainsaw and asking them to sculpt a chair that will be comfortable to sit in. Some people can do it with just the chainsaw and a lot of practice. However, in order to get most people to not damage themselves or the people who may someday try to sit in the chair, you have to create a robot to control the chainsaw. What you probably wanted was not a chainsaw attached to a robot, but rather a lathe, a plane, and some chisels, and some other hand tools.
    - heavenlyblue 9y ago
      I believe what you’re trying to say is that every product has it’s own lifetime.
      - hyperion2010 9y ago
        Not really lifetimes, even a stone hammer like one used 30k years ago is still useful in the right context (I still find html and css quite useful for what they were originally intended for). More that even very powerful tools have a niche or set of use cases where they excel, and outside that nice other tools are likely to be more empowering to their wielder.