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So don't use iCloud backups. You're never required to. You can trivially back up through iTunes, even automatically via Wi-Fi assuming you have them on the same

by ztjio 9y ago

So don't use iCloud backups. You're never required to. You can trivially back up through iTunes, even automatically via Wi-Fi assuming you have them on the same network regularly. Anyone concerned about privacy, the first thing they should be ensuring is they are NOT using iCloud backup.

jzoch 9y ago
You're correct, though its Apple's MO to supply security in an intuitive manner. IF you tout all these parts of your platform as secure and have one insecure piece that interfaces with it then it isnt a secure platform. The onus should be on Apple to secure iCloud. To their credit, I think they know that and will be. Those who are knowledgeable and care about security will continue to stay ahead of those who aren't, but Apple is making the division smaller.
ballenf 9y ago
Given that Apple recently removed the ability to buy apps from iTunes, I think the writings's on the wall for the ability to locally backup iOS devices. Which is a huge shame. My guess is they're waiting for more complete coverage in terms of iCloud functionality and maybe security. But Apple has been known to pull the plug on "pro" functionality like this and/or remove functionality before the replacement was quite ready yet.
- r00fus 9y ago
  What was the use case for buying apps on iTunes as opposed to any one of your iOS devices?
  - tluyben2 9y ago
    Legacy maybe? You could only buy from iTunes in the beginning.
- thisacctforreal 9y ago
  For many years it has been possible to backup iOS devices using the native protocols, thanks to libimobiledevice. http://www.libimobiledevice.org http://www.libimobiledevice.org On macOS (I also use it on Linux, haven't tried on Windows): brew install libimobiledevice ## to disable iCloud backups idevicebackup2 cloud off ## if you want encrypted backups (native encryption) idevicebackup2 encryption on -i ## backup to a folder idevicebackup2 backup backup-folder ## restore from a backup idevicebackup2 restore backup-folder This uses the same format as iTunes, which stores them in ~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup There are more utilities included: idevice_id idevicedebugserverproxy idevicenotificationproxy idevicebackup idevicediagnostics idevicepair idevicebackup2 ideviceenterrecovery ideviceprovision idevicecrashreport ideviceimagemounter idevicescreenshot idevicedate ideviceinfo idevicesyslog idevicedebug idevicename iproxy You can also mount your iPhone's filesystem using ifuse (the only one in a separate package): brew cask install osxfuse brew install ifuse ## mount your iPhone ifuse mount-point ## unmount, or eject using Finder umount mount-point Parts of these protocols have been around since the first iPhones, I find it highly unlikely Apple will remove these anytime soon.
rsync 9y ago
"So don't use iCloud backups. You're never required to. You can trivially back up through iTunes" Is that how iDevices work ? You do data backup with your mp3 player ? Is there really no Finder equivalent on an iphone ? Genuinely curious ...
- grzm 9y ago
  Yup. iTunes has been a central hub ever since the iPod. Once they had the syncing work there, it made a certain amount of sense to use it for all iDevices and interaction with Apple's media, as it was available on both Windows and macOS. It's been a painful and unhappy evolution, in my experience (and those of many others from what I've read), however.
- ztjio 9y ago
  First, it's relevant to understand the history of what made Apple the behemoth they are today and no matter what random outlier opinions about iTunes you see, it's absolutely iTunes + iPod and what that brought to the general public for managing media and having a great portable media experience 15 years ago. So yeah iTunes is still a core concern when it comes to managing iOS devices of certain types. When iPhone came out the primary selling points included it being an iPod, were you there? I was. There is no way in hell they were going to let go of the signature usability boon that people relied on and made them rich. So yeah, iPhone was managed by iTunes and for a long time it was the only way to manage media, contacts, etc. on it or do that sort of thing. iPad was included in this, as well. Over time, alternative options for managing your device data and such have been implemented. Today you can use iOS devices without ever once connecting to iTunes if you want. Sure. On the device there is a file browser though it's semi sandboxed as you can imagine. You can backup to the cloud if you want hence this discussion. It's all independent. If you want. However, iTunes still provides some very useful abilities. Besides offering a vastly improved UI for managing your media, it offers things like full image restores, deep encrypted backups (requiring no internet access to restore) and recovery features. You can place data directly into individual app sandboxes, or copy videos/music/etc. directly to device. Despite what another commenter mentioned, I very much doubt these features will be removed. Maybe they will move out of iTunes. A long time ago there used to be a tool called iSync that was dedicated to device sync/interactions on Mac OS X and I could see that kind of approach being revived. It's very nice to have an OS provided, reliable way to recover a bricked phone, or recover backups without blowing an entire weekend of downloading/installing not to mention data usage restrictions many people still endure. Anyway, TL;DR: you can use iTunes but you don't have to because history.

by ztjio 9y ago

jzoch 9y ago

You're correct, though its Apple's MO to supply security in an intuitive manner. IF you tout all these parts of your platform as secure and have one insecure piece that interfaces with it then it isnt a secure platform. The onus should be on Apple to secure iCloud. To their credit, I think they know that and will be. Those who are knowledgeable and care about security will continue to stay ahead of those who aren't, but Apple is making the division smaller.

ballenf 9y ago

Given that Apple recently removed the ability to buy apps from iTunes, I think the writings's on the wall for the ability to locally backup iOS devices. Which is a huge shame. My guess is they're waiting for more complete coverage in terms of iCloud functionality and maybe security. But Apple has been known to pull the plug on "pro" functionality like this and/or remove functionality before the replacement was quite ready yet.

r00fus 9y ago
What was the use case for buying apps on iTunes as opposed to any one of your iOS devices?
- tluyben2 9y ago
  Legacy maybe? You could only buy from iTunes in the beginning.
thisacctforreal 9y ago
For many years it has been possible to backup iOS devices using the native protocols, thanks to libimobiledevice. http://www.libimobiledevice.org http://www.libimobiledevice.org On macOS (I also use it on Linux, haven't tried on Windows): brew install libimobiledevice ## to disable iCloud backups idevicebackup2 cloud off ## if you want encrypted backups (native encryption) idevicebackup2 encryption on -i ## backup to a folder idevicebackup2 backup backup-folder ## restore from a backup idevicebackup2 restore backup-folder This uses the same format as iTunes, which stores them in ~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup There are more utilities included: idevice_id idevicedebugserverproxy idevicenotificationproxy idevicebackup idevicediagnostics idevicepair idevicebackup2 ideviceenterrecovery ideviceprovision idevicecrashreport ideviceimagemounter idevicescreenshot idevicedate ideviceinfo idevicesyslog idevicedebug idevicename iproxy You can also mount your iPhone's filesystem using ifuse (the only one in a separate package): brew cask install osxfuse brew install ifuse ## mount your iPhone ifuse mount-point ## unmount, or eject using Finder umount mount-point Parts of these protocols have been around since the first iPhones, I find it highly unlikely Apple will remove these anytime soon.

rsync 9y ago

"So don't use iCloud backups. You're never required to. You can trivially back up through iTunes" Is that how iDevices work ? You do data backup with your mp3 player ? Is there really no Finder equivalent on an iphone ? Genuinely curious ...

grzm 9y ago
Yup. iTunes has been a central hub ever since the iPod. Once they had the syncing work there, it made a certain amount of sense to use it for all iDevices and interaction with Apple's media, as it was available on both Windows and macOS. It's been a painful and unhappy evolution, in my experience (and those of many others from what I've read), however.
ztjio 9y ago
First, it's relevant to understand the history of what made Apple the behemoth they are today and no matter what random outlier opinions about iTunes you see, it's absolutely iTunes + iPod and what that brought to the general public for managing media and having a great portable media experience 15 years ago. So yeah iTunes is still a core concern when it comes to managing iOS devices of certain types. When iPhone came out the primary selling points included it being an iPod, were you there? I was. There is no way in hell they were going to let go of the signature usability boon that people relied on and made them rich. So yeah, iPhone was managed by iTunes and for a long time it was the only way to manage media, contacts, etc. on it or do that sort of thing. iPad was included in this, as well. Over time, alternative options for managing your device data and such have been implemented. Today you can use iOS devices without ever once connecting to iTunes if you want. Sure. On the device there is a file browser though it's semi sandboxed as you can imagine. You can backup to the cloud if you want hence this discussion. It's all independent. If you want. However, iTunes still provides some very useful abilities. Besides offering a vastly improved UI for managing your media, it offers things like full image restores, deep encrypted backups (requiring no internet access to restore) and recovery features. You can place data directly into individual app sandboxes, or copy videos/music/etc. directly to device. Despite what another commenter mentioned, I very much doubt these features will be removed. Maybe they will move out of iTunes. A long time ago there used to be a tool called iSync that was dedicated to device sync/interactions on Mac OS X and I could see that kind of approach being revived. It's very nice to have an OS provided, reliable way to recover a bricked phone, or recover backups without blowing an entire weekend of downloading/installing not to mention data usage restrictions many people still endure. Anyway, TL;DR: you can use iTunes but you don't have to because history.