4 ms·

Good advice, albeit hard to accomplish. Identity is a core part of political party formation, at least in Europe (together with self-interest and ideology). No

Good advice, albeit hard to accomplish. Identity is a core part of political party formation, at least in Europe (together with self-interest and ideology). No doubt it has an important role in marketing as well. I don't see these forces giving up on pulling the identity lever any time soon, it seems to gain importance if anything. However, perceived identity coupled with a sense of oppression, exceptionalism and/or fear of extinction is what always gets us in trouble (i.e. war), so there are a number of good reasons to keep tight reins on identity.

lamename 9y ago
Agreed. Humans tend to quickly self-sort into tribes. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's fun (sports), sometimes it's exploitable
- mr_toad 9y ago
  Not just humans. Other hominids operate at a tribal level. Obviously there is a survival adavantage to help ensure the genes of your tribe (genetically close relatives) survive. I can’t help but think that human political ‘tribalism’ is just atavism.
7dare 9y ago
But apparently fear of extinction doesn't lead people to leave their cars at home or to waste less... Seems like the only reactions these fears cause are misguided and radical ones.
- tensor_rank_0 9y ago
  there is a prisoner's dilemma type of effect here where, when other people are "defecting" (wasting fossil fuels and packaging), it's rational for the individual to defect as well.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    I don't get that, though: there's little to no penalty in this case to avoid "defecting". Things may cost a little more for you, but it's not nearly as drastic or dire as the expected outcome in the actual prisoner's dilemma if you don't defect.
    - tensor_rank_0 9y ago
      consider that the cost of complying is immediate and borne by the agent, whereas the penalty of defection is discounted according to the degree to which people believe it can be postponed (insofar as they consider the penalty at all).
incompatible 9y ago
With a weak identity you can just hop over to the winning side. I think a lot of polemic attacks over identity aren't aimed so much at the opposition, but at weak supporters to stop them defecting.

lamename 9y ago

Agreed. Humans tend to quickly self-sort into tribes. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's fun (sports), sometimes it's exploitable

mr_toad 9y ago
Not just humans. Other hominids operate at a tribal level. Obviously there is a survival adavantage to help ensure the genes of your tribe (genetically close relatives) survive. I can’t help but think that human political ‘tribalism’ is just atavism.

7dare 9y ago

But apparently fear of extinction doesn't lead people to leave their cars at home or to waste less... Seems like the only reactions these fears cause are misguided and radical ones.

tensor_rank_0 9y ago
there is a prisoner's dilemma type of effect here where, when other people are "defecting" (wasting fossil fuels and packaging), it's rational for the individual to defect as well.
- kelnos 9y ago
  I don't get that, though: there's little to no penalty in this case to avoid "defecting". Things may cost a little more for you, but it's not nearly as drastic or dire as the expected outcome in the actual prisoner's dilemma if you don't defect.
  - tensor_rank_0 9y ago
    consider that the cost of complying is immediate and borne by the agent, whereas the penalty of defection is discounted according to the degree to which people believe it can be postponed (insofar as they consider the penalty at all).

incompatible 9y ago

With a weak identity you can just hop over to the winning side. I think a lot of polemic attacks over identity aren't aimed so much at the opposition, but at weak supporters to stop them defecting.