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First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many y

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for all who have died, advertently or inadvertently, to protect our rights and freedoms. pulp

foolrush 9y ago
> "“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the government, and needing military style rifles for that purpose. You’re not going to stand up to the government with this thing. They’d take you out in about half a second." https://agingmillennialengineer.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-like-guns-2/ https://agingmillennialengineer.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-li... *Edit: Set link to original military poster.
- foxhound6 9y ago
  Sounds like the author isn't familiar with the history of Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.
  - aalleavitch 9y ago
    You mean places that all prove that weapons mean fuck-all compared to actual deep and lasting social change in fighting corrupt governments and belief systems? The only way to actually defend yourself against a corrupt government is to change hearts and minds.
    - foxhound6 9y ago
      I was merely disproving the fact that a motivated population with rifles can't fight and (in the case of Vietnam) defeat the world's largest military. The jury is still out on Iraq/Afghanistan.
- keiferski 9y ago
  I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on guns either way, but this kind of argument never made sense to me. The continual quagmire that is Iraq and Afghanistan for Coalition Forces almost immediately disproves it. The objective isn’t to “win” in a conventional war, it’s to be a perpetual resistance. See Napoleon’s misadventures in Spain (the source of the term ‘guerilla’) for a pre-modern example.
1337biz 9y ago
Oh, I did't think of that one. Just thought it was the typical 'Trump is a dictator' musing but you are right, this might be very well about the teens vs NRA show.
maxerickson 9y ago
First they came for the fully automatic guns and you just rolled over and let them take them.
aalleavitch 9y ago
Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live at the barrel of a gun.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable... You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.
  - aalleavitch 9y ago
    Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place. Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      > They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that. Try that against the Mexican drug cartels and see how that goes
      - aalleavitch 9y ago
        The Mexican drug cartels wouldn’t exist if we’d have established a system that doesn’t give them financial incentives to. These problems are fundamentally always an issue of the underlying social systems that bring them into being. You cannot shoot them away.
        raverbashing 9y ago
        I'm not concerned about what brought the cartels to existence, the question applies to any enemy force, replace "Mexican Cartels" with "Nazis" if you wish Explain to me how you're supposed to deal with Nazis, or other invading armed force using "Arguments, beliefs, and convictions"
smashingfiasco 9y ago
It's not about the government, it's about the oligarchs. The US governmemt is a puppet, and the ventriloquist are the oligarchs. I see what you're saying, but I suspect that the oligarchs that actually run the US do not like an armed populace.
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  Actually, I'm sure some do... like the lobbyists for gun manufacturers and arms dealers in the NRA and Washington. Some people make a LOT of money from guns/weapon sales.
whowouldathunk 9y ago
One cost of all the guns is all the extra security. Schools resembling prisons, TSA, metal detectors and surveillance everywhere... doesn’t that also infringe on my freedom in a way?
- CM30 9y ago
  Is that a cost of the guns, or the 'war on terror' stuff that became an obsession after 9/11? Because it's not much better in many places outside the US either.
legulere 9y ago
The liberty you are talking about here is handling guns irresponsibly. That's the only additional gun-related liberty Americans have compared to most other developed countries.

foolrush 9y ago

> "“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the government, and needing military style rifles for that purpose. You’re not going to stand up to the government with this thing. They’d take you out in about half a second." https://agingmillennialengineer.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-like-guns-2/ https://agingmillennialengineer.com/2018/02/15/fuck-you-i-li... *Edit: Set link to original military poster.

foxhound6 9y ago
Sounds like the author isn't familiar with the history of Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.
- aalleavitch 9y ago
  You mean places that all prove that weapons mean fuck-all compared to actual deep and lasting social change in fighting corrupt governments and belief systems? The only way to actually defend yourself against a corrupt government is to change hearts and minds.
  - foxhound6 9y ago
    I was merely disproving the fact that a motivated population with rifles can't fight and (in the case of Vietnam) defeat the world's largest military. The jury is still out on Iraq/Afghanistan.
keiferski 9y ago
I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on guns either way, but this kind of argument never made sense to me. The continual quagmire that is Iraq and Afghanistan for Coalition Forces almost immediately disproves it. The objective isn’t to “win” in a conventional war, it’s to be a perpetual resistance. See Napoleon’s misadventures in Spain (the source of the term ‘guerilla’) for a pre-modern example.

1337biz 9y ago

Oh, I did't think of that one. Just thought it was the typical 'Trump is a dictator' musing but you are right, this might be very well about the teens vs NRA show.

maxerickson 9y ago

First they came for the fully automatic guns and you just rolled over and let them take them.

aalleavitch 9y ago

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live at the barrel of a gun.

humanrebar 9y ago
> The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable... You could fight a single knucklehead who thinks a badge means he can get away with theft, rape, or murder.
- aalleavitch 9y ago
  Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place. Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    > They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that. Try that against the Mexican drug cartels and see how that goes
    - aalleavitch 9y ago
      The Mexican drug cartels wouldn’t exist if we’d have established a system that doesn’t give them financial incentives to. These problems are fundamentally always an issue of the underlying social systems that bring them into being. You cannot shoot them away.
      - raverbashing 9y ago
        I'm not concerned about what brought the cartels to existence, the question applies to any enemy force, replace "Mexican Cartels" with "Nazis" if you wish Explain to me how you're supposed to deal with Nazis, or other invading armed force using "Arguments, beliefs, and convictions"

smashingfiasco 9y ago

It's not about the government, it's about the oligarchs. The US governmemt is a puppet, and the ventriloquist are the oligarchs. I see what you're saying, but I suspect that the oligarchs that actually run the US do not like an armed populace.

gremlinsinc 9y ago
Actually, I'm sure some do... like the lobbyists for gun manufacturers and arms dealers in the NRA and Washington. Some people make a LOT of money from guns/weapon sales.

whowouldathunk 9y ago

One cost of all the guns is all the extra security. Schools resembling prisons, TSA, metal detectors and surveillance everywhere... doesn’t that also infringe on my freedom in a way?

CM30 9y ago
Is that a cost of the guns, or the 'war on terror' stuff that became an obsession after 9/11? Because it's not much better in many places outside the US either.

legulere 9y ago

The liberty you are talking about here is handling guns irresponsibly. That's the only additional gun-related liberty Americans have compared to most other developed countries.