4 ms·

Dane here. I think this article gets something right, pointing out trust. Another word would be "solidarity" - believing you 'owe' your fellow countryman and t

Dane here. I think this article gets something right, pointing out trust. Another word would be "solidarity" - believing you 'owe' your fellow countryman and that you are on the same team. What's good for you is good for me. In Denmark, we pay something like 50% tax but we also get a lot of things covered by our state which other countries let the individuals get through expensive insurance. This means that if my neighbour get rich, I'm happy since that means a better school for my (and his) children, help for my (and his) old parents, roads that gets fixed etc. (Edit: some of the money goes to the state and EU, while a healthy chunk stays in the municipality - this keeps the money close) My point: it only works if people are indeed on the same team. That is why big nations are a detriment to this model. If the taxes disappear into black holes, negligent waste and corruption the system crumbles quickly. And as we all know, it takes much longer time to build trust that to kill it. It is a constant battle (which right now, it feels like we're losing, but that doesn't matter for this post). Can big nations like the U.S. copy this? Well, Denmark is about the size of your average state. So yeah, if each state made an effort to make the public sector make sense internally on state level, it could. I don't think it will, though. The cultural gap is too wide and expecting people to always be looking out for number one isn't seen as a bad thing. Just remember that Danes/Scandinavians aren't better people than others (except Swedes; we're ALL better than Swedes!). It is a matter of choice and goals.

rayiner 9y ago
> Just remember that Danes/Scandinavians aren't better people than others I'm not sure I buy that. Say you're tasked with planning and building a whole new city in an isolated place. Do you want to bring along 10,000 randomly-selected Bangladeshis, or 10,000 randomly-selected Danes? As a Bangladeshi myself, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. I think you can fairly blame circumstance for it, but at the end of the day, Bangladeshi culture has a higher tolerance for corruption, theocracy, opportunism, etc., than European cultures I have experienced. (But I'm biased--2/3 of Bangladeshis think I should be executed for apostasy. The odds are not in my favor!) Also, in Denmark, the standard sentence for murder is like 12 years, while in America you can get 12 years for far less. We voted for that. Doesn't that make Danes better than Americans?
- Eupolemos 9y ago
  > Doesn't that make Danes better than Americans? In my opinion, yes. That is my culture and I stand by it. But my point is that Danes aren't inherently better. It isn't like Scandinavians are some kind of master race with genes of goodness and kind hearts. It is about growing and maintaining a culture and system of warranted trust, and that isn't easy. But having said that, it is just work. Every nation can do it if they set their mind to it.
makomk 9y ago
It doesn't even require taxes to vanish into black holes, waste and corruption for this to fall apart; all it requires is that those taxes are being spent on people who aren't like us in some sense, who are too far away or too culturally different. You can see this with, for example, the griping from Californians about how unfair it is that they're forced to subsidise other states which aren't the economic success story that California is. (Where economic success is measured by something like GDP, and much of California is so expensive that only the best-paid people and industries can afford to set up shop there.)
- rsync 9y ago
  "You can see this with, for example, the griping from Californians about how unfair it is that they're forced to subsidise other states which aren't the economic success story that California is." While it is indeed true that California is a net-tax-contributor to the United States, it's fairly new that this is a point of contention or a "gripe" from Californians. A much more prevalent complaint, in my experience, is that Californians pay the same ~50% in taxes that Danish people do, but have much, much worse public policy and infrastructure outcomes.
  - gnarbarian 9y ago
    They also have the highest poverty rate in the US. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-californi...
- jshaqaw 9y ago
  The griping isn’t about subsidizing those less well off. The griping is about a warped Federal system which systematically allows states with representation disproportionate to their populations or wealth to siphon excessive resources.

rayiner 9y ago

> Just remember that Danes/Scandinavians aren't better people than others I'm not sure I buy that. Say you're tasked with planning and building a whole new city in an isolated place. Do you want to bring along 10,000 randomly-selected Bangladeshis, or 10,000 randomly-selected Danes? As a Bangladeshi myself, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. I think you can fairly blame circumstance for it, but at the end of the day, Bangladeshi culture has a higher tolerance for corruption, theocracy, opportunism, etc., than European cultures I have experienced. (But I'm biased--2/3 of Bangladeshis think I should be executed for apostasy. The odds are not in my favor!) Also, in Denmark, the standard sentence for murder is like 12 years, while in America you can get 12 years for far less. We voted for that. Doesn't that make Danes better than Americans?

Eupolemos 9y ago
> Doesn't that make Danes better than Americans? In my opinion, yes. That is my culture and I stand by it. But my point is that Danes aren't inherently better. It isn't like Scandinavians are some kind of master race with genes of goodness and kind hearts. It is about growing and maintaining a culture and system of warranted trust, and that isn't easy. But having said that, it is just work. Every nation can do it if they set their mind to it.

makomk 9y ago

It doesn't even require taxes to vanish into black holes, waste and corruption for this to fall apart; all it requires is that those taxes are being spent on people who aren't like us in some sense, who are too far away or too culturally different. You can see this with, for example, the griping from Californians about how unfair it is that they're forced to subsidise other states which aren't the economic success story that California is. (Where economic success is measured by something like GDP, and much of California is so expensive that only the best-paid people and industries can afford to set up shop there.)

rsync 9y ago
"You can see this with, for example, the griping from Californians about how unfair it is that they're forced to subsidise other states which aren't the economic success story that California is." While it is indeed true that California is a net-tax-contributor to the United States, it's fairly new that this is a point of contention or a "gripe" from Californians. A much more prevalent complaint, in my experience, is that Californians pay the same ~50% in taxes that Danish people do, but have much, much worse public policy and infrastructure outcomes.
- gnarbarian 9y ago
  They also have the highest poverty rate in the US. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-californi...
jshaqaw 9y ago
The griping isn’t about subsidizing those less well off. The griping is about a warped Federal system which systematically allows states with representation disproportionate to their populations or wealth to siphon excessive resources.