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From my understanding of Harley fans is that they really really like their air-cooled engines. V-Rod, Street 750 have all gotten flak for not being 'true' harle

by pwaai 9y ago

From my understanding of Harley fans is that they really really like their air-cooled engines. V-Rod, Street 750 have all gotten flak for not being 'true' harleys....because they improved on lot of the outdated tech. They can't sell even the newer bikes (revenue has fallen and closing down factories) because the demographic is steadfast in their vision of classic harley. Porsche enthusiasts also show similar preference for air cooled 70~80s models which appreciates in value....but they kept almost all parts of the formula (the car look, clock, engine in the rear) the same because when they went with a bold new look (like the tear drop of early 2000s) they were facing an uphill battle. It's sort of like the HN comment I see calling for petrol cars to be banned because electric vehicles are going to render the old ones extinct. There is a true lack of understanding the market and the buyers in a space that most HN'ers are not the target demographic.

simonh 9y ago
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If everyone expected electric vehicles to just naturally replace all petrol powered vehicles and make them extinct, there would be no need for talk of a ban. Of course petrol heads will always want petrol powered vehicles. The whole point of bans is to stop people doing things they would otherwise do. Note I'm not advocating a ban as such. I think it would be a shame if all petrol powered vehicles were banned, if only for historical appreciation. They might be banned from or face restrictions on their use on public highways though. However it does seem likely there will be a push back from petrol heads on that.
theluketaylor 9y ago
the 996 era 911 is certainly the least loved porsche 911 and it was initially due to being the first water cooled engine, but now it's because the horrible egg headlights and the fact it isn't old enough to be classic yet. The 991.1 and 991.2 have sold incredibly well and the 918 showed porsche enthusiasts hybrid would actually make their cars faster. When the 992 includes electrification there is going to be a huge demand. The air cooled leap in value didn't happen until more than a decade after porsche switched to water cooling when people realized vintage 911s had been undervalued for decades (they are excellent cars, especially with modern tires). There is likely now a bubble, especially with 912s, but there are tons of porsche guys buying both old and new stuff. I don't see current Harley guys taking to electric very well, but this is about getting a whole new generation of buyers, not about keeping their aging boomers happy.
- hungariantoast 9y ago
  At the same time that the 996 was a controversial success for Porsche, the 928 was an eventual, controversial failure. Even though I own a 928 I don't know nearly enough about the 928's history to talk about why it failed, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with its rapid departure from the 911's style and layout. My big question is will an electric Harley be just enough, too little, or too much of a change from its heritage to succeed?
vpribish 9y ago
the lesson from the Porsche example is to go ahead and do it! The market for their modern product built on top of the rich brand legacy is far far larger than the old market for the legacy product. They traditionalists will whine, but you can hardly hear them what with the stacks of money all around.
icantdrive55 9y ago
I'm a Harley enthusiast. Well, older Harleys, and a few of their modern models--the Fat Boy comes to mind. You couldn't sell Harleys fast enough in the nineties. It got to the point, only rich white guys with money could afford one. The rich white guys did what they do best, they just ruined the whole Harley mistique. They put on a bunch of cheap chrome, bought rediculious biker outfits, drove the cost of the bikes, and the fun was gone. Harley enthusiasts like the look of older Harleys. They liked the sound, the fact that it's made in USA, the bad boy image, and historical record of Harley Davidisons. That said, I know Harley bikers that took stock bikes, and grunged them up. They essentially turned a shiny bike into a Rat Motorcycle. I belive they did/are doing this because they are just disgusted with society, and their bike was their way of showing their disdain. Disdain for putting money before family/friends, and authority figures that abuse power. That's were I'm at. I'm not into the whole gang thing. That said, I've given up on Harley. I don't like the attention they bring anymore. They are half the price they were in the nineties though, or at least on the used market. My next bike will be made by me, with the best motor, and trans I can scrounge up. It will have no company name on it. So Harley demographics has changed greatly. They are in a weird place right now. They just closed a factory down in the Midwest. Their demographics are guys who are now in their fifties, and those guys are selling their bikes on the used market. When I looked at the electric bike, I just didn't like the bike in the picture. I didn't like the top speed of 93 mph either. So--I believe Harley still has some thinking out of the box ahead of them. If I was in Harley white board meeting. My recommendation would be sell a big bored generic bare bones bike. A bike that only only had the primer on it. A simple bike. Keep the big V-twin. A bike that could be customed by the owner. And keep the cost of the bare boned model down. If they got their price point down to $5500, I think they could make a comeback. Plus, the though of having a $25,000 motorcycle stolen is on everyone's mind. I do wish the company luck.

by pwaai 9y ago

simonh 9y ago

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If everyone expected electric vehicles to just naturally replace all petrol powered vehicles and make them extinct, there would be no need for talk of a ban. Of course petrol heads will always want petrol powered vehicles. The whole point of bans is to stop people doing things they would otherwise do. Note I'm not advocating a ban as such. I think it would be a shame if all petrol powered vehicles were banned, if only for historical appreciation. They might be banned from or face restrictions on their use on public highways though. However it does seem likely there will be a push back from petrol heads on that.

theluketaylor 9y ago

the 996 era 911 is certainly the least loved porsche 911 and it was initially due to being the first water cooled engine, but now it's because the horrible egg headlights and the fact it isn't old enough to be classic yet. The 991.1 and 991.2 have sold incredibly well and the 918 showed porsche enthusiasts hybrid would actually make their cars faster. When the 992 includes electrification there is going to be a huge demand. The air cooled leap in value didn't happen until more than a decade after porsche switched to water cooling when people realized vintage 911s had been undervalued for decades (they are excellent cars, especially with modern tires). There is likely now a bubble, especially with 912s, but there are tons of porsche guys buying both old and new stuff. I don't see current Harley guys taking to electric very well, but this is about getting a whole new generation of buyers, not about keeping their aging boomers happy.

hungariantoast 9y ago
At the same time that the 996 was a controversial success for Porsche, the 928 was an eventual, controversial failure. Even though I own a 928 I don't know nearly enough about the 928's history to talk about why it failed, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with its rapid departure from the 911's style and layout. My big question is will an electric Harley be just enough, too little, or too much of a change from its heritage to succeed?

vpribish 9y ago

the lesson from the Porsche example is to go ahead and do it! The market for their modern product built on top of the rich brand legacy is far far larger than the old market for the legacy product. They traditionalists will whine, but you can hardly hear them what with the stacks of money all around.

icantdrive55 9y ago

I'm a Harley enthusiast. Well, older Harleys, and a few of their modern models--the Fat Boy comes to mind. You couldn't sell Harleys fast enough in the nineties. It got to the point, only rich white guys with money could afford one. The rich white guys did what they do best, they just ruined the whole Harley mistique. They put on a bunch of cheap chrome, bought rediculious biker outfits, drove the cost of the bikes, and the fun was gone. Harley enthusiasts like the look of older Harleys. They liked the sound, the fact that it's made in USA, the bad boy image, and historical record of Harley Davidisons. That said, I know Harley bikers that took stock bikes, and grunged them up. They essentially turned a shiny bike into a Rat Motorcycle. I belive they did/are doing this because they are just disgusted with society, and their bike was their way of showing their disdain. Disdain for putting money before family/friends, and authority figures that abuse power. That's were I'm at. I'm not into the whole gang thing. That said, I've given up on Harley. I don't like the attention they bring anymore. They are half the price they were in the nineties though, or at least on the used market. My next bike will be made by me, with the best motor, and trans I can scrounge up. It will have no company name on it. So Harley demographics has changed greatly. They are in a weird place right now. They just closed a factory down in the Midwest. Their demographics are guys who are now in their fifties, and those guys are selling their bikes on the used market. When I looked at the electric bike, I just didn't like the bike in the picture. I didn't like the top speed of 93 mph either. So--I believe Harley still has some thinking out of the box ahead of them. If I was in Harley white board meeting. My recommendation would be sell a big bored generic bare bones bike. A bike that only only had the primer on it. A simple bike. Keep the big V-twin. A bike that could be customed by the owner. And keep the cost of the bare boned model down. If they got their price point down to $5500, I think they could make a comeback. Plus, the though of having a $25,000 motorcycle stolen is on everyone's mind. I do wish the company luck.