5 ms·

Techcrunch don't understand motorcycles do they? Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car dri

Techcrunch don't understand motorcycles do they? Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car drivers onto the motorcycle license. The capacity limits and multi-part test etc are quite off-putting for new riders. Unsurprisingly, it's still car drivers causing most rider deaths. On the plus side you develop a definite 6th sense for those that will pull out - whilst looking straight through you. You also end up a much better car driver. Lifestyle ranges are part of the problem of decline. The manufacturers, Harley included - perhaps especially, have catered more and more for the born again bikers spending a lot of $$$ in their 40s+. The cost has got rather silly and many models, even Jap middleweights, have reached the cost to buy of a cheaper car. When I started only the Goldwing and rarer Italian managed that. So whilst I'd love for an EV bike to revitalise things, I suspect they'll be more of the same for the 40+ born again biker. Source: Almost 35 years of motorcycling and trying to encourage the kids to take up biking. Edit: This has been gaining plenty of up and downvotes. I'm intrigued - what's controversial here?

volkl48 9y ago
As with most things driving, the US is a typically a lot more relaxed than that about handing out licenses. I know in my home state (NJ) I took a 2.5 day class over a weekend and got my motorcycle endorsement from passing a basic skills test at the end of that. No capacity limits or anything else, I could have gone out and picked up a liter bike with my couple hours of riding experience (and probably gotten myself killed quickly) if I wanted.
Clubber 9y ago
>Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, is too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car drivers onto the motorcycle license. Yes, but as you know, even if the motorcycle is in the right, physics doesn't care. I quit riding recently after 8 years of serious riding, 18 of casual, because our sales guy, who has years of riding experience got T-Boned on a legal left turn with his wife on the back. They were "ok," meaning not dead and no brain damage, but they were pretty beat up. The moral of the story for me was, no matter how good and experienced a rider you are, you can still get clobbered. >The cost has got rather silly and many models, even Jap middleweights, have reached the cost to buy of a cheaper car. Between you and me and all the blind drivers, I'd rather buy a used sport convertible with a manual transmission. Just about the same experience for the same money, minus most of the risk of death.
- falcolas 9y ago
  Aah, yes, the right of weight. As for the sports car, I totally understand the choice. Unfortunately, for under a couple of million dollars a car will never have the same potential for acceleration as even a relatively modest motorcycle. And you... loose something visceral when you can't lean into turns. If a person is OK with that, however, a used sport car is definitely a reasonable investment for some wheeled fun.
  - hcho 9y ago
    There are quite a few videos of Tesla S's beating motorbikes. They are expensive but not million dolar expensive.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  60% of all the skilled riders I know have at least one if not multiple orthopedic appliances screwed into their bones. I’m not citing this as a fact for everyone to go by; but it is enough to keep me off a bike.
  - jlgaddis 9y ago
    Yep, I've got four!
762236 9y ago
Downvotes are probably because people hate motorcycle noise. I'm sure most of us are indifferent to it while driving next to motorcycles, but when we're not driving and are trying to enjoy life at home or work or a restaurant, we don't want to hear that noise (which just adds up when lots of motorcycles pass by). I'm all for outlawing motorcycles if noise is necessary for safety. For people to downvote you because they don't like noise is violating HN's downvote guidelines, and contributes to making HN an echo chamber.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  It absolutely isn't. Wear bright colors instead, it helps a lot more than useless noise.
- oldcynic 9y ago
  Can't speak to US noise regs, but here most standard bikes really aren't that loud any more - years of noise regs have put paid to that. I'm just as anti excessive noise as many non motorcyclists. Not least because of > "I'm all for outlawing motorcycles if noise is necessary for safety." Being a noisy arse encourages sensible thinking people to start calling for outright bans. The lead footed in hot hatch or Subaru with Cherry Bomb are just as annoying as the noisy arse on a bike. Especially if late or around town. On the flip side, noise regs have got so tight that some factory standard bikes are barely audible around town - presuming sensible revs, almost dangerously so. I think it was Toyota was trialling playing engine noises on EVs because of this. I don't want obnoxious straight pipes - just "enough" legal noise to be comparably audible as cars round town (as factory standard).
lumberjack 9y ago
>Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car drivers onto the motorcycle license. The capacity limits and multi-part test etc are quite off-putting for new riders. Unsurprisingly, it's still car drivers causing most rider deaths. What you say is false. Here is data to the contrary: https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/motorcyclists https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/motorcyclists There is a clear relation between engine size and fatalities. There is also a clear relation between stringent license tests and safety. What you have to accept is that you might ride safely, but for every person like you there are a couple of young squids out there who are going to buy the largest capacity motorcycle they can, ride it dangerously and without any gear and any caution thrown to the wind. I am a rider too, and often encounter these idiots. At least in the Netherlands gear is very ubiquitous (except for the nostalgia grandpas on their 1940s antique) but I still see dangerous riding all the time. And in terms of economic incentives, at least in the Netherlands it is insanely attractive. The license is the only obstacle, but you save a lot on fuel and road tax.
- oldcynic 9y ago
  To me that does not give enough to contradict, they don't break down the figures any further to reveal properly. "Approximately 40% of all serious and fatal motorcycle crashes in the Netherlands are single vehicle crashes (a crash in which no other road user is involved). In the other motorcycle crashes the crash opponent is mainly a passenger car" Now I'm sure some of the other 60% are caused by the biker, but the vast majority of two vehicle accidents involving a bike come down to driver pulling out of side road, overtaking into blind spot etc. Your guess is as good as mine how they broke down further. The only UK figures, with enough breakdown, I can find are 2004[0], which gave rider at fault 42%, other driver 44% with 33% single vehicle. They removed single vehicle to get 22% rider, 57% driver as cause when more than one vehicle. But yes the idiots taking racing line at 100mph in weekend traffic are an accident waiting to happen and have a good chance of ending buried in a wall. I'm happy to let them pass me. [0] http://www.mile-muncher.com/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf http://www.mile-muncher.com/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf
jdeibele 9y ago
Maybe you could replace Jap with Japanese? I grew up with people like my dad (born in the 30s) saying they'd "never buy a Jap car". He never did but we did have Honda and Suzuki dirt bikes because of the quality and price.
- oldcynic 9y ago
  Wasn't attempting to be offensive and I apologise if anyone found it so. Gave it no more significance than referring to myself as a Brit. Most of my bikes have been Japanese.
  - philwelch 9y ago
    The term "Jap" is considered extremely offensive in the United States. It's mostly associated with virulently racist WWII-era propaganda.

volkl48 9y ago

As with most things driving, the US is a typically a lot more relaxed than that about handing out licenses. I know in my home state (NJ) I took a 2.5 day class over a weekend and got my motorcycle endorsement from passing a basic skills test at the end of that. No capacity limits or anything else, I could have gone out and picked up a liter bike with my couple hours of riding experience (and probably gotten myself killed quickly) if I wanted.

Clubber 9y ago

>Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, is too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car drivers onto the motorcycle license. Yes, but as you know, even if the motorcycle is in the right, physics doesn't care. I quit riding recently after 8 years of serious riding, 18 of casual, because our sales guy, who has years of riding experience got T-Boned on a legal left turn with his wife on the back. They were "ok," meaning not dead and no brain damage, but they were pretty beat up. The moral of the story for me was, no matter how good and experienced a rider you are, you can still get clobbered. >The cost has got rather silly and many models, even Jap middleweights, have reached the cost to buy of a cheaper car. Between you and me and all the blind drivers, I'd rather buy a used sport convertible with a manual transmission. Just about the same experience for the same money, minus most of the risk of death.

falcolas 9y ago
Aah, yes, the right of weight. As for the sports car, I totally understand the choice. Unfortunately, for under a couple of million dollars a car will never have the same potential for acceleration as even a relatively modest motorcycle. And you... loose something visceral when you can't lean into turns. If a person is OK with that, however, a used sport car is definitely a reasonable investment for some wheeled fun.
- hcho 9y ago
  There are quite a few videos of Tesla S's beating motorbikes. They are expensive but not million dolar expensive.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
60% of all the skilled riders I know have at least one if not multiple orthopedic appliances screwed into their bones. I’m not citing this as a fact for everyone to go by; but it is enough to keep me off a bike.
- jlgaddis 9y ago
  Yep, I've got four!

762236 9y ago

Downvotes are probably because people hate motorcycle noise. I'm sure most of us are indifferent to it while driving next to motorcycles, but when we're not driving and are trying to enjoy life at home or work or a restaurant, we don't want to hear that noise (which just adds up when lots of motorcycles pass by). I'm all for outlawing motorcycles if noise is necessary for safety. For people to downvote you because they don't like noise is violating HN's downvote guidelines, and contributes to making HN an echo chamber.

KozmoNau7 9y ago
It absolutely isn't. Wear bright colors instead, it helps a lot more than useless noise.
oldcynic 9y ago
Can't speak to US noise regs, but here most standard bikes really aren't that loud any more - years of noise regs have put paid to that. I'm just as anti excessive noise as many non motorcyclists. Not least because of > "I'm all for outlawing motorcycles if noise is necessary for safety." Being a noisy arse encourages sensible thinking people to start calling for outright bans. The lead footed in hot hatch or Subaru with Cherry Bomb are just as annoying as the noisy arse on a bike. Especially if late or around town. On the flip side, noise regs have got so tight that some factory standard bikes are barely audible around town - presuming sensible revs, almost dangerously so. I think it was Toyota was trialling playing engine noises on EVs because of this. I don't want obnoxious straight pipes - just "enough" legal noise to be comparably audible as cars round town (as factory standard).

lumberjack 9y ago

>Trouble with motorcycles is, at least in the EU, too many years of governments putting the fix for bad car drivers onto the motorcycle license. The capacity limits and multi-part test etc are quite off-putting for new riders. Unsurprisingly, it's still car drivers causing most rider deaths. What you say is false. Here is data to the contrary: https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/motorcyclists https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/motorcyclists There is a clear relation between engine size and fatalities. There is also a clear relation between stringent license tests and safety. What you have to accept is that you might ride safely, but for every person like you there are a couple of young squids out there who are going to buy the largest capacity motorcycle they can, ride it dangerously and without any gear and any caution thrown to the wind. I am a rider too, and often encounter these idiots. At least in the Netherlands gear is very ubiquitous (except for the nostalgia grandpas on their 1940s antique) but I still see dangerous riding all the time. And in terms of economic incentives, at least in the Netherlands it is insanely attractive. The license is the only obstacle, but you save a lot on fuel and road tax.

oldcynic 9y ago
To me that does not give enough to contradict, they don't break down the figures any further to reveal properly. "Approximately 40% of all serious and fatal motorcycle crashes in the Netherlands are single vehicle crashes (a crash in which no other road user is involved). In the other motorcycle crashes the crash opponent is mainly a passenger car" Now I'm sure some of the other 60% are caused by the biker, but the vast majority of two vehicle accidents involving a bike come down to driver pulling out of side road, overtaking into blind spot etc. Your guess is as good as mine how they broke down further. The only UK figures, with enough breakdown, I can find are 2004[0], which gave rider at fault 42%, other driver 44% with 33% single vehicle. They removed single vehicle to get 22% rider, 57% driver as cause when more than one vehicle. But yes the idiots taking racing line at 100mph in weekend traffic are an accident waiting to happen and have a good chance of ending buried in a wall. I'm happy to let them pass me. [0] http://www.mile-muncher.com/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf http://www.mile-muncher.com/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf

jdeibele 9y ago

Maybe you could replace Jap with Japanese? I grew up with people like my dad (born in the 30s) saying they'd "never buy a Jap car". He never did but we did have Honda and Suzuki dirt bikes because of the quality and price.

oldcynic 9y ago
Wasn't attempting to be offensive and I apologise if anyone found it so. Gave it no more significance than referring to myself as a Brit. Most of my bikes have been Japanese.
- philwelch 9y ago
  The term "Jap" is considered extremely offensive in the United States. It's mostly associated with virulently racist WWII-era propaganda.