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"First, the argument is ridiculous because Bitcoin is already doing something useful for society (mining wouldn’t be profitable if it wasn’t)." Errrr, no. That

"First, the argument is ridiculous because Bitcoin is already doing something useful for society (mining wouldn’t be profitable if it wasn’t)." Errrr, no. That's not how things work. Mining is profitable because it produces bitcoins which are valuable. Whether they are valuable because they are useful to society or because of some other reason is unclear.

Fnoord 9y ago
What you quote I also wanted to quote. It appears to be a fallacy, though I'm unable to pinpoint which one it is.
- meheleventyone 9y ago
  I’m pretty sure the quoted piece is ‘jumping to conclusions’ by labelling all profit making activities as useful to society. Basically the logic is very straightforward but the premise is faulty due to bias.
  - cornholio 9y ago
    I would also point out the circular logic: - distributed payment systems are valuable to society (true for our discussion) - POW is the only way to implement them (his overarching conclusion, that may or not be true) => Therefore, POW is not wasted, but a legitimate cost of such systems.
  - viraptor 9y ago
    It's the first time I think this description of extreme capitalism really fits: "See where this line meets that line? That's why these people have to starve." It's value for value's sake. It's the numbers that matter. It's the pure, isolated economy. Anything external doesn't matter and we can write a long analysis that ignores everything outside of this supposedly closed system.
omarforgotpwd 9y ago
They have value because they can be exchanged with others (who will probably value them according to the market price) and because they are difficult and expensive to make. Just like dollars or any other currency. But what he's saying is true, if Bitcoin did not perform any function it would have very little market value. So in a way the market value is an expression of the fact that people are finding it useful for something.
- dullgiulio 9y ago
  They do. For the overwhelming majority, this something is gambling. Whether that's useful for society (especially, decentralized gambling) is open for debate.
  - omarforgotpwd 9y ago
    Gamling and speculation are certainly use cases. They're not the only use cases. Money laundering, drug sales, protecting assets against seizure, political dissent... basically anything where the Government / financial system has shut you out from the market. I say "useful" only in the sense that it clearly has uses. Even if you don't believe these activities are beneficial to society, you can still concede that they are useful in that people are using them.

Fnoord 9y ago

What you quote I also wanted to quote. It appears to be a fallacy, though I'm unable to pinpoint which one it is.

meheleventyone 9y ago
I’m pretty sure the quoted piece is ‘jumping to conclusions’ by labelling all profit making activities as useful to society. Basically the logic is very straightforward but the premise is faulty due to bias.
- cornholio 9y ago
  I would also point out the circular logic: - distributed payment systems are valuable to society (true for our discussion) - POW is the only way to implement them (his overarching conclusion, that may or not be true) => Therefore, POW is not wasted, but a legitimate cost of such systems.
- viraptor 9y ago
  It's the first time I think this description of extreme capitalism really fits: "See where this line meets that line? That's why these people have to starve." It's value for value's sake. It's the numbers that matter. It's the pure, isolated economy. Anything external doesn't matter and we can write a long analysis that ignores everything outside of this supposedly closed system.

omarforgotpwd 9y ago

They have value because they can be exchanged with others (who will probably value them according to the market price) and because they are difficult and expensive to make. Just like dollars or any other currency. But what he's saying is true, if Bitcoin did not perform any function it would have very little market value. So in a way the market value is an expression of the fact that people are finding it useful for something.

dullgiulio 9y ago
They do. For the overwhelming majority, this something is gambling. Whether that's useful for society (especially, decentralized gambling) is open for debate.
- omarforgotpwd 9y ago
  Gamling and speculation are certainly use cases. They're not the only use cases. Money laundering, drug sales, protecting assets against seizure, political dissent... basically anything where the Government / financial system has shut you out from the market. I say "useful" only in the sense that it clearly has uses. Even if you don't believe these activities are beneficial to society, you can still concede that they are useful in that people are using them.