3 ms·

I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? and oil, well, that's norse for beer, remember where normandy has it's name from? That doesn't explain

I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? and oil, well, that's norse for beer, remember where normandy has it's name from? That doesn't explain yes, no; but eu, as in euphemism might[1]. Heureka! In other news, what does si in greek letters look like? "σι"! Pretty close to oi nowadays and Celtic druids are speculated to have visited Greece. That doesn't invalidate the "this there" story, but maybe precedes it. The disdain for Slavik in the article is confirming a slight bias. [1]: also europe, eukaryote, oi-punk, Euler. Well, almost. "arobe" means harbor (ger. Heimathaven?) in some European language but I CBA to look up which it was or how it's written, right now.

schoen 9y ago
> I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? Nope! The orient is where the sun rises and the occident is where the sun sets. All of these have been traced back to Proto-Indo-European and have different origins: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occido#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occido#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ob#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ob#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic#Latin Edit: the eu- also has a different PIE etymology. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BD%96#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BD%96#Ancient_Greek
- posterboy 9y ago
  Yeah, I can google myself thank you very much. Your inability to speak or to read properly makes me really doubt your general premises, because neither had anyone talked about ob and you didn't explain the relation to the thread either, nor did you notice my precaution to note that I the theory for oil from the article might still be valid. Instead you seem to have come panting and frothing from the mouth as soon as you had read the first few lines hardly being able to read the rest of my post. I know how it is, I do that too sometimes. No harm done. > the eu- also has a different PIE etymology. I know, why do you think I would have mentioned it otherwise?! If you had to guess in percent how certain a single PIE root is, and then take the combined probability for ll f the roots of the rather young PIE studies, which are very well known to have produced a metric shittonne of false results not even a hundred years ago that we are still wading through, how likely is it that the patient has cancer? To repeat, what's "ob" have to do with this?
  - schoen 9y ago
    > To repeat, what's "ob" have to do with this? Ob is the prefix that combined with cado to produce occido, which is the origin of occident. The assimilation of the b to the initial consonant of the other verb is something that's been seen in a large number of other cases. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Latin_words_prefixed_with_ob- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Latin_words_prefixed...
    - posterboy 9y ago
      See, when you said > All of these have been traced back to Proto-Indo-European and have different origins: that could be taken to mean that the PIE terms have different roots or no roots at all. "ob" and "eu" go back to * h₁epi- and * h₁es- ... and evidently obs-, obc- is frequent so there's the assumption that * h₁epis > * h₁epi- must (might) have been a thing; while you already noted that loss of b before a consonant is a thing, so that * h₁ebs- > * h₁es- were not too unlikely either. Even closer now, I'll stop there. But to think that terms as basic and simple as "yes" would be innovations instead of variations of varieties that existed for millennia, warrants a lot of doubt. Just pointing at a few made up roots doesn't impress anyone, really. Historical linguistics is clinging to the "single mother" hypothesis. It's a useful abstraction, but as programmers we should know better. Simply speaking, it appears to me that the sheer amount of material to work with is too intimidating to researchers (manually) to even attempt to favor the assumption of chaos. So if it can't be supported by historic artifacts it's labeled mere coincidence. And reliable artifacts are sparse. So everything is uncertain. OK, I don't actually know much about the archeology, but as far as I know, Celtic and Germanic is generally not well preserved as text. I agree, I guess, the threshold to validate a claim is rather high. And I do err at times, quite trivially. Perhaps that's why I present my argument as a joke. But the threshold counts all the same against falsification. You can't just arm chair a "nope" like that. That was really inconsiderate. Instead of roots, take a step back and consider basic semantics. What's closer to yes: "true, good, to be, " or "that, there"? And for a region, that happens to lie in the west of roma, what's more likely to be it's name "west" or "the country in which they say oc"?
igravious 9y ago
No need to wonder. The Occitan Wiktionary page https://oc.wiktionary.org/wiki/occitan https://oc.wiktionary.org/wiki/occitan says “Del latin medieval occitanus, que se tròba dins lingua occitana. Derivat de òc, benlèu sus lo modèl de aquitanus.” – the English Wiktionary page of same says “From Medieval Latin occitanus in the phrase lingua occitana, Latinization of langue d'oc. The ending -itanus perhaps after aquitanus.” And Occident https://www.etymonline.com/word/occident https://www.etymonline.com/word/occident “late 14c., "western part" (of the heavens or earth), from Old French occident (12c.) or directly from Latin occidentem (nominative occidens) "western sky, sunset, part of the sky in which the sun sets," noun use of adjective meaning "setting," from present participle of occidere "fall down, go down" (see occasion (n.)).” Somebody would have wondered about the connection before, surely. Even though I didn't particularly take to the sprinkling of profanity and hip-hop lingo I think "on some Slavic shit" roughly translates to "on some Slavic thing/trip" and isn't intended to be derogatory. Am open to corrections here. The rest of your post I'm having a hard time disassembling. I don't think you can just free associate from one language to another switching between written and spoken changing alphabets along the way and between past and present. I mean, if you actually did come up with a valid and novel derivation of something that's the kind of thing one could put into a paper get peer reviewed and published.
- posterboy 9y ago
  >Even though I didn't particularly take to the sprinkling of profanity and hip-hop lingo I think "on some Slavic shit" roughly translates to "on some Slavic thing/trip" and isn't intended to be derogatory. Am open to corrections here. Yeah, in the drive-by shootin kinda sense maybe, motherfucker. > The rest of your post I'm having a hard time disassembling. I don't think you can just free associate from one language to another switching between written and spoken changing alphabets along the way and between past and present. Of course you can freely associate, to a limited degree you even have to, because that's how language is being used. I'm pretty sure because, like, it still is, which I know, because sometimes I do go out. And I'd hazard a guess that before TV and public schooling, language was far more fractured and > I mean, if you actually did come up with a valid and novel derivation of something that's the kind of thing one could put into a paper get peer reviewed and published. I take that as a compliment. I could self publish like Martin Luther and start a new religion. I'd call it Euangelium ... So much for you can't just freely associate between written and spoken language.
cryptonector 9y ago
I didn't take it as disdain exactly. More like a meant-to-be-funny turn, almost self-deprecating. I doubt the author actually feels disdain for slavic languages.

schoen 9y ago

> I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? Nope! The orient is where the sun rises and the occident is where the sun sets. All of these have been traced back to Proto-Indo-European and have different origins: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occido#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occido#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ob#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ob#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic#Latin Edit: the eu- also has a different PIE etymology. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BD%96#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BD%96#Ancient_Greek

posterboy 9y ago
Yeah, I can google myself thank you very much. Your inability to speak or to read properly makes me really doubt your general premises, because neither had anyone talked about ob and you didn't explain the relation to the thread either, nor did you notice my precaution to note that I the theory for oil from the article might still be valid. Instead you seem to have come panting and frothing from the mouth as soon as you had read the first few lines hardly being able to read the rest of my post. I know how it is, I do that too sometimes. No harm done. > the eu- also has a different PIE etymology. I know, why do you think I would have mentioned it otherwise?! If you had to guess in percent how certain a single PIE root is, and then take the combined probability for ll f the roots of the rather young PIE studies, which are very well known to have produced a metric shittonne of false results not even a hundred years ago that we are still wading through, how likely is it that the patient has cancer? To repeat, what's "ob" have to do with this?
- schoen 9y ago
  > To repeat, what's "ob" have to do with this? Ob is the prefix that combined with cado to produce occido, which is the origin of occident. The assimilation of the b to the initial consonant of the other verb is something that's been seen in a large number of other cases. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Latin_words_prefixed_with_ob- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Latin_words_prefixed...
  - posterboy 9y ago
    See, when you said > All of these have been traced back to Proto-Indo-European and have different origins: that could be taken to mean that the PIE terms have different roots or no roots at all. "ob" and "eu" go back to * h₁epi- and * h₁es- ... and evidently obs-, obc- is frequent so there's the assumption that * h₁epis > * h₁epi- must (might) have been a thing; while you already noted that loss of b before a consonant is a thing, so that * h₁ebs- > * h₁es- were not too unlikely either. Even closer now, I'll stop there. But to think that terms as basic and simple as "yes" would be innovations instead of variations of varieties that existed for millennia, warrants a lot of doubt. Just pointing at a few made up roots doesn't impress anyone, really. Historical linguistics is clinging to the "single mother" hypothesis. It's a useful abstraction, but as programmers we should know better. Simply speaking, it appears to me that the sheer amount of material to work with is too intimidating to researchers (manually) to even attempt to favor the assumption of chaos. So if it can't be supported by historic artifacts it's labeled mere coincidence. And reliable artifacts are sparse. So everything is uncertain. OK, I don't actually know much about the archeology, but as far as I know, Celtic and Germanic is generally not well preserved as text. I agree, I guess, the threshold to validate a claim is rather high. And I do err at times, quite trivially. Perhaps that's why I present my argument as a joke. But the threshold counts all the same against falsification. You can't just arm chair a "nope" like that. That was really inconsiderate. Instead of roots, take a step back and consider basic semantics. What's closer to yes: "true, good, to be, " or "that, there"? And for a region, that happens to lie in the west of roma, what's more likely to be it's name "west" or "the country in which they say oc"?

igravious 9y ago

No need to wonder. The Occitan Wiktionary page https://oc.wiktionary.org/wiki/occitan https://oc.wiktionary.org/wiki/occitan says “Del latin medieval occitanus, que se tròba dins lingua occitana. Derivat de òc, benlèu sus lo modèl de aquitanus.” – the English Wiktionary page of same says “From Medieval Latin occitanus in the phrase lingua occitana, Latinization of langue d'oc. The ending -itanus perhaps after aquitanus.” And Occident https://www.etymonline.com/word/occident https://www.etymonline.com/word/occident “late 14c., "western part" (of the heavens or earth), from Old French occident (12c.) or directly from Latin occidentem (nominative occidens) "western sky, sunset, part of the sky in which the sun sets," noun use of adjective meaning "setting," from present participle of occidere "fall down, go down" (see occasion (n.)).” Somebody would have wondered about the connection before, surely. Even though I didn't particularly take to the sprinkling of profanity and hip-hop lingo I think "on some Slavic shit" roughly translates to "on some Slavic thing/trip" and isn't intended to be derogatory. Am open to corrections here. The rest of your post I'm having a hard time disassembling. I don't think you can just free associate from one language to another switching between written and spoken changing alphabets along the way and between past and present. I mean, if you actually did come up with a valid and novel derivation of something that's the kind of thing one could put into a paper get peer reviewed and published.

posterboy 9y ago
>Even though I didn't particularly take to the sprinkling of profanity and hip-hop lingo I think "on some Slavic shit" roughly translates to "on some Slavic thing/trip" and isn't intended to be derogatory. Am open to corrections here. Yeah, in the drive-by shootin kinda sense maybe, motherfucker. > The rest of your post I'm having a hard time disassembling. I don't think you can just free associate from one language to another switching between written and spoken changing alphabets along the way and between past and present. Of course you can freely associate, to a limited degree you even have to, because that's how language is being used. I'm pretty sure because, like, it still is, which I know, because sometimes I do go out. And I'd hazard a guess that before TV and public schooling, language was far more fractured and > I mean, if you actually did come up with a valid and novel derivation of something that's the kind of thing one could put into a paper get peer reviewed and published. I take that as a compliment. I could self publish like Martin Luther and start a new religion. I'd call it Euangelium ... So much for you can't just freely associate between written and spoken language.

cryptonector 9y ago

I didn't take it as disdain exactly. More like a meant-to-be-funny turn, almost self-deprecating. I doubt the author actually feels disdain for slavic languages.