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The risk factors fail to mention their inability to offer any kind of end-to-end encryption. Or that E2E encryption is the differentiator that most of their com

The risk factors fail to mention their inability to offer any kind of end-to-end encryption. Or that E2E encryption is the differentiator that most of their competitors offer. Dropbox (employees and trusted third parties) will always have access to your files. Before you downvote. This is not necessarily a bad thing. They can deliver more features and better performance as a result. Reliability is key, and it's certainly easier to understand what users need, and to develop, implement and debug new features, when you've got access to the files users are storing. But eventually, end-to-end encryption will take hold. It took decades for HTTPS to become the defacto standard, but it did. Email is moving that direction (Proton Mail, Tutanota). Text messaging is moving that direction (Signal, WhatsApp?). And there's a number of Dropbox competitors that are growing fast because of better privacy and E2E encryption (SpiderOak, Tresorit, Sync.com, pCloud). NextCloud (open source self-hosted Dropbox alternative) also just launched end-to-end encryption. These companies have been slowly solving the problems that Drew claimed were impossible when Edward Snowden dropped the bomb. Meanwhile Dropbox has been pouring dollars into marketing and a Microsoft Office / OneNote / Google Docs competitor (Paper). Drew's response to end-to-end encryption: https://techcrunch.com/2014/11/04/dropboxs-drew-houston-responds-to-snowdens-privacy-criticism-its-a-trade-off/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/11/04/dropboxs-drew-houston-resp... Dropbox risk factors (many unsolvable): https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1467623/000119312518055809/d451946ds1.htm#toc451946_2 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1467623/000119312518... I use Dropbox and feel the product is still the leader in terms of features, but I see the competition catching up, with better privacy (end-to-end encryption) built in.

varenc 9y ago
Dropbox mentions their real competition in S1 filing: Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, and Box. None of them seem to offer E2E. The competitors you cited aren't worth mentioning due to their small market share relative to the big players. E2E might be feature customers start demanding in the future, but it sure doesn't seem like that now. (though I wonder how many folks are using the big players on top of other encryption solutions like truecrypt/veracrypt/safe, etc)
- jest3r1 9y ago
  Dropbox mentions Microsoft, Google and Apple as competition, because for these companies, file synchronization is just another feature (not a product). Steve Jobs said it himself: https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/23/dld-2012-drew-houston-yes-steve-jobs-called-dropbox-a-feature/ https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/23/dld-2012-drew-houston-yes-... And sure, the big three don't seem to care too much about privacy (although Apple has recently been making some strides with regards to encryption). The fact that there are many "not worth mentioning" competitors building Dropbox alternatives (or add-ons) with E2E encryption may signal that there actually is a demand. It's only a matter of time before one of these companies gets it "right".
bad_user 9y ago
> Email is moving that direction (Proton Mail, Tutanota) No it doesn't. I've never heard of Tutanota, but Proton Mail is hardly evidence of anything. In fact the attack vector for email is very different when compared with other channels, as for email I'm not afraid of my email provider as I'm afraid of hacking attempts. Yes, I value security over privacy for email. Therefore I would trust Gmail more than I would trust Proton Mail. Proton Email is also non-standard and is obviously not E2E encrypted when it comes to communicating with non-Proton recipients. If I actually wanted encrypted email, I would use GPG. It sucks from a usability point of view, but it's standard and for email that matters. > I use Dropbox and it's still the leader in terms of features, but I see the competition catching up, with better privacy (end-to-end encryption) built in. Curious, which competition? I tried everything that I could find, because Dropbox has a high price and their online search didn't work well even after I upgraded to Pro. Btw, it might actually be better to do an encrypted drive with https://cryptomator.org https://cryptomator.org on top of Dropbox or Google Drive. It's definitely more reliable ;-) Or in other words, if the service provider does not get access to your files due to encryption, then there isn't much value they can add. You can't have a secure web interface for encrypted files, you can't have online search. So might as well do application-level encryption and all you need is cheap and reliable storage.
- jest3r1 9y ago
  > Curious, which competition? I clearly outlined many competitors similar to Dbox that offer end-to-end encryption: (SpiderOak, Tresorit, Sync.com, pCloud). NextCloud (open source self-hosted Dropbox alternative) also just launched end-to-end encryption. >Therefore I would trust Gmail more than I would trust Proton Mail. Google: don't expect privacy when sending to Gmail: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gmail-users-privacy-email-lawsuit https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gm... Google terms of service: Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored. https://www.google.com/policies/terms/ https://www.google.com/policies/terms/
  - 9y ago

varenc 9y ago

Dropbox mentions their real competition in S1 filing: Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, and Box. None of them seem to offer E2E. The competitors you cited aren't worth mentioning due to their small market share relative to the big players. E2E might be feature customers start demanding in the future, but it sure doesn't seem like that now. (though I wonder how many folks are using the big players on top of other encryption solutions like truecrypt/veracrypt/safe, etc)

jest3r1 9y ago
Dropbox mentions Microsoft, Google and Apple as competition, because for these companies, file synchronization is just another feature (not a product). Steve Jobs said it himself: https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/23/dld-2012-drew-houston-yes-steve-jobs-called-dropbox-a-feature/ https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/23/dld-2012-drew-houston-yes-... And sure, the big three don't seem to care too much about privacy (although Apple has recently been making some strides with regards to encryption). The fact that there are many "not worth mentioning" competitors building Dropbox alternatives (or add-ons) with E2E encryption may signal that there actually is a demand. It's only a matter of time before one of these companies gets it "right".

bad_user 9y ago

> Email is moving that direction (Proton Mail, Tutanota) No it doesn't. I've never heard of Tutanota, but Proton Mail is hardly evidence of anything. In fact the attack vector for email is very different when compared with other channels, as for email I'm not afraid of my email provider as I'm afraid of hacking attempts. Yes, I value security over privacy for email. Therefore I would trust Gmail more than I would trust Proton Mail. Proton Email is also non-standard and is obviously not E2E encrypted when it comes to communicating with non-Proton recipients. If I actually wanted encrypted email, I would use GPG. It sucks from a usability point of view, but it's standard and for email that matters. > I use Dropbox and it's still the leader in terms of features, but I see the competition catching up, with better privacy (end-to-end encryption) built in. Curious, which competition? I tried everything that I could find, because Dropbox has a high price and their online search didn't work well even after I upgraded to Pro. Btw, it might actually be better to do an encrypted drive with https://cryptomator.org https://cryptomator.org on top of Dropbox or Google Drive. It's definitely more reliable ;-) Or in other words, if the service provider does not get access to your files due to encryption, then there isn't much value they can add. You can't have a secure web interface for encrypted files, you can't have online search. So might as well do application-level encryption and all you need is cheap and reliable storage.

jest3r1 9y ago
> Curious, which competition? I clearly outlined many competitors similar to Dbox that offer end-to-end encryption: (SpiderOak, Tresorit, Sync.com, pCloud). NextCloud (open source self-hosted Dropbox alternative) also just launched end-to-end encryption. >Therefore I would trust Gmail more than I would trust Proton Mail. Google: don't expect privacy when sending to Gmail: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gmail-users-privacy-email-lawsuit https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gm... Google terms of service: Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored. https://www.google.com/policies/terms/ https://www.google.com/policies/terms/
- 9y ago