4 ms·

That advice sounds insanely stupid, unless he means to train through it with modifying. I think it's important for both the mental and physical momentum to tra

That advice sounds insanely stupid, unless he means to train through it with modifying. I think it's important for both the mental and physical momentum to train through, if you're accepting reality, and not just blasting through pain. Then again, Rip isn't known for his nuance and delicacy. I think the keys to avoiding injury, in addition to stretching (and hardcore stretching, especially as we age), is not trying to push the progressive overload faster than getting the ideal form. I've burned myself too many times in this regard, and I agree with you, compensating for old injuries down the road really blows, so avoiding it would be ideal. Thankfully, in addition to their being a myriad of ways to injure yourself, folks are pretty creative on movements that can adapt to that as well. And then there's steroids ;)

vinceguidry 9y ago
I don't know that form is the key. Both of my injuries that put me off of lifting the last time were done under the watchful eye of my trainer. There was no cheating. Something just 'popped', both times. And put me out of commission for weeks. First time was in my legs, the other was in my neck. Rip does advise shifting to accommodate injury. But that's the extent of his advice.
- natecavanaugh 9y ago
  Since I obviously have very little insight here to your possible situation, but was it perhaps too much weight? Or not enough ancillary training involving the supportive muscles? And I believe, depending on your goals, there are ways to hit your goals safely, but they tend to take quite a bit longer, since it's a much slower progression and a slower set of actual set work. It might be worth looking into, if you haven't already :)
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    I was following the Starting Strength Training program, created by Mark Rippletoe, one of the most respected names in strength training, under a trainer who learned how to train directly from Rip. There's no chance that I wasn't following the program correctly. The problem is that the program is wrong. Taking your advice, to go for a slower progression, is going against the program. That is definitely something I could do, but why not just throw the whole program out the window? Because it obviously doesn't suit my needs. If I try to go slower, there's no guarantee that I still won't get injured. To make an analogy here, let's take a woodworker's shop. A table saw is an incredibly dangerous piece of equipment, but the way to keep yourself safe from it is simple and intuitive, keep your hands away from the blade. Every single safety protocol revolves around that, and you can pick and choose just how many safeguards you want to use. Push sticks seem mandatory, a blade guard less so. But you can understand the danger of a table saw. Nobody says, "well you can take all the precautions in the world against a table saw, but you still might get your thumb taken off anyway." But that's the situation with barbell weightlifting.
    - grzm 9y ago
      I don't think Mark Rippletoe would countenance a program that invariably leads to injury, and would agree that the program needs to be tailored to the individual. If a given individual needs a slower progression to avoid injury, that's the progression they need to follow. In a brief search online, I came across this paragraph: > "Training is the process of changing an athlete’s physical capacity over time. Its specifics depend on the precise task the athlete will perform, when it will be performed, and how often.... The process must also reflect the current state of physical preparation of the athlete: a freshman in high school doesn’t train like a strong, experienced college senior unless his coach is a fool." https://startingstrength.com/article/strength_and_prevention_of_injuries https://startingstrength.com/article/strength_and_prevention... If you happen to come across something that directly contradicts this, please do share. There’s no guarantee for perfect prevention of injury, but paying close attention to one’s current state of conditioning and adapting training to fit, you’ve got a much better chance of doing so. Injury sucks. I hope you find a regime that fits for you and helps you reach your fitness goals.
      - vinceguidry 9y ago
        > There’s no guarantee for perfect prevention of injury, That's the crux of the issue. Without such a guarantee, I will never train with barbells again. It boils down to a difference in priorities. You, and Rip, both seem to think soft tissue injury is an acceptable risk in the quest for strength gains. I do not. Again, look at a table saw. People can use a table saw their entire lives without introducing a body part to a spinning blade. But you can't train with a barbell, with any amount of good form, with any kind of specialized program, with any kind of expertise at hand, and be 100% positive you will avoid injury.
        grzm 9y ago
        > "That's the crux of the issue. Without such a guarantee" I actually meant that very generally. Any physical effort that's going to build muscle has risks: you're applying force somehow and there's a chance for that force to be misapplied and cause injury. The two exceptions I thought of are yoga and swimming (both of which I've also done on occasion). That said, to each his own. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to the possibility of injuring myself, and I honestly don't think lifting free weights is inherently risky when one pays attention to technique and one's own condition (both in general and during a workout), which is true of any sport or fitness program. But if it doesn't appeal to you or you don't perceive the risks as I do, I'm sure you'll find something that meets your needs.

vinceguidry 9y ago

I don't know that form is the key. Both of my injuries that put me off of lifting the last time were done under the watchful eye of my trainer. There was no cheating. Something just 'popped', both times. And put me out of commission for weeks. First time was in my legs, the other was in my neck. Rip does advise shifting to accommodate injury. But that's the extent of his advice.

natecavanaugh 9y ago
Since I obviously have very little insight here to your possible situation, but was it perhaps too much weight? Or not enough ancillary training involving the supportive muscles? And I believe, depending on your goals, there are ways to hit your goals safely, but they tend to take quite a bit longer, since it's a much slower progression and a slower set of actual set work. It might be worth looking into, if you haven't already :)
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  I was following the Starting Strength Training program, created by Mark Rippletoe, one of the most respected names in strength training, under a trainer who learned how to train directly from Rip. There's no chance that I wasn't following the program correctly. The problem is that the program is wrong. Taking your advice, to go for a slower progression, is going against the program. That is definitely something I could do, but why not just throw the whole program out the window? Because it obviously doesn't suit my needs. If I try to go slower, there's no guarantee that I still won't get injured. To make an analogy here, let's take a woodworker's shop. A table saw is an incredibly dangerous piece of equipment, but the way to keep yourself safe from it is simple and intuitive, keep your hands away from the blade. Every single safety protocol revolves around that, and you can pick and choose just how many safeguards you want to use. Push sticks seem mandatory, a blade guard less so. But you can understand the danger of a table saw. Nobody says, "well you can take all the precautions in the world against a table saw, but you still might get your thumb taken off anyway." But that's the situation with barbell weightlifting.
  - grzm 9y ago
    I don't think Mark Rippletoe would countenance a program that invariably leads to injury, and would agree that the program needs to be tailored to the individual. If a given individual needs a slower progression to avoid injury, that's the progression they need to follow. In a brief search online, I came across this paragraph: > "Training is the process of changing an athlete’s physical capacity over time. Its specifics depend on the precise task the athlete will perform, when it will be performed, and how often.... The process must also reflect the current state of physical preparation of the athlete: a freshman in high school doesn’t train like a strong, experienced college senior unless his coach is a fool." https://startingstrength.com/article/strength_and_prevention_of_injuries https://startingstrength.com/article/strength_and_prevention... If you happen to come across something that directly contradicts this, please do share. There’s no guarantee for perfect prevention of injury, but paying close attention to one’s current state of conditioning and adapting training to fit, you’ve got a much better chance of doing so. Injury sucks. I hope you find a regime that fits for you and helps you reach your fitness goals.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      > There’s no guarantee for perfect prevention of injury, That's the crux of the issue. Without such a guarantee, I will never train with barbells again. It boils down to a difference in priorities. You, and Rip, both seem to think soft tissue injury is an acceptable risk in the quest for strength gains. I do not. Again, look at a table saw. People can use a table saw their entire lives without introducing a body part to a spinning blade. But you can't train with a barbell, with any amount of good form, with any kind of specialized program, with any kind of expertise at hand, and be 100% positive you will avoid injury.
      - grzm 9y ago
        > "That's the crux of the issue. Without such a guarantee" I actually meant that very generally. Any physical effort that's going to build muscle has risks: you're applying force somehow and there's a chance for that force to be misapplied and cause injury. The two exceptions I thought of are yoga and swimming (both of which I've also done on occasion). That said, to each his own. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to the possibility of injuring myself, and I honestly don't think lifting free weights is inherently risky when one pays attention to technique and one's own condition (both in general and during a workout), which is true of any sport or fitness program. But if it doesn't appeal to you or you don't perceive the risks as I do, I'm sure you'll find something that meets your needs.