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Yes sexism is alive and well. I always assumed it would die with my dad's generation. But no. I assumed geeks would be the last kind of people to be sexist, bu

by icc97 9y ago

Yes sexism is alive and well. I always assumed it would die with my dad's generation. But no. I assumed geeks would be the last kind of people to be sexist, but no. I don't really have a solution, although things do seem slightly better than 50 years ago. The only thing that seems to make a difference is women shouting to be heard and telling their kids to be less sexist. It clearly takes generations to change. Not that that helps you. But I do at least respect your comments.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
I assumed geeks would be the last kind of people to be sexist, but no. HN is the least worst space I have found. Most geeks are mostly guilty of just engaging in habits that society taught them. Very few people here are deeply committed to making sure women remain barefoot and pregnant. This makes them possibly our last, best hope, in spite of their failure to be perfect. The only thing that seems to make a difference is women shouting to be heard and telling their kids to be less sexist. I don't agree. I made it to the leaderboard by avoiding trouble, giving respect, and doing my best to not shout. You cannot begin to imagine how far I have gone to prove myself to the men here. It is the end of the month. I am nearly broke and very stressed about it. I'm frustrated and fed up and angry and there are times when shouting is appropriate. But, most of the time, I feel the angry feminist types are just cutting their own throat. I blog about that at times, not that any women care what I think.
- icc97 9y ago
  The only thing that seems to make a difference is women shouting to be heard and telling their kids to be less sexist. Yes it's entirely possible that I haven't expressed this correctly. Perhaps it's more along the lines of the women who pushed the boundaries of what was capable. I think it does take women speaking out when they see that things are wrong. From what I witness I don't see men willing to change the status quo anytime soon. I honestly think such change on a large scale takes mothers and fathers who won't accept the same level of sexism that their parents put up with and putting this into their children. Happy to corrected on my points. As for your comments, personally I upvote them because you add something to the conversation. You have an interesting point of view.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    I do see men willing to change the status quo. They may not see exactly what needs to happen and their motives are different than those of women. But my ability to make it to the leaderboard as a woman in an overwhelmingly male forum tells you something about the men here too, not just about me. Men are also fucked over by historical gender roles. It is not true that they get all the benefits and women pay the price. Men get maimed and killed by their well paid jobs. Men have a shorter average life expectancy. Most homeless people on the street are male in part because if you can't pull your weight as a man, society basically says fuck you. The way forward is to start by acknowledging that fact and speaking to the need to improve the lives of both men and women. Simply being angry that women have less money and taking that anger out on men doesn't work. I am not simply angry that I am poor. I am angry that I am willing to work for a living and the entire world makes that an uphill battle in a way it does not do to the men. I am angry at listening to people talk about what good people they are while either actively ignoring my pleas for help or actively being in my way. Perhaps having a cow about that will get me banned or shunned or otherwise shut out of any hope of getting what I need from HN. But after 8.5 years, it is clear to me that being polite and patient isn't opening doors. So I am dead in the water anyway. I get very frustrated when women try to support my position on HN. In most cases, they are only undermining 8.5 years of very hard won progress on my part. When women make comments to me rife with their manhating personal baggage while positioning themselves as on my side, I feel both used and pissed on. It looks to me like I am being taken advantage of. If you have such admiration for me, you can stop being part of my problem. You can follow me on twitter. You can email me. You can read my blog writing and promote my blog writing, sharing it socially. You can leave a tip or support my Patreon. And maybe in a couple of years you will have learned enough to be able to make useful productive comments on HN about solving gender parity instead of making comments that make me want to tear yours to pieces just to distance myself from the blatant misandry. This is an overwhelmingly male forum. A lot of the men here are well heeled movers and shakers. Sharing your opinion that men are just assholes who don't want the status quo to change is a case of putting out the fire with gasoline. And it makes me extremely sympathetic to why so many men don't try harder. Keep your day job. Don't try to pretend to be a diplomatic ambassador in the peace accords between the sexes. You aren't qualified.

by icc97 9y ago

DoreenMichele 9y ago

I assumed geeks would be the last kind of people to be sexist, but no. HN is the least worst space I have found. Most geeks are mostly guilty of just engaging in habits that society taught them. Very few people here are deeply committed to making sure women remain barefoot and pregnant. This makes them possibly our last, best hope, in spite of their failure to be perfect. The only thing that seems to make a difference is women shouting to be heard and telling their kids to be less sexist. I don't agree. I made it to the leaderboard by avoiding trouble, giving respect, and doing my best to not shout. You cannot begin to imagine how far I have gone to prove myself to the men here. It is the end of the month. I am nearly broke and very stressed about it. I'm frustrated and fed up and angry and there are times when shouting is appropriate. But, most of the time, I feel the angry feminist types are just cutting their own throat. I blog about that at times, not that any women care what I think.

icc97 9y ago
The only thing that seems to make a difference is women shouting to be heard and telling their kids to be less sexist. Yes it's entirely possible that I haven't expressed this correctly. Perhaps it's more along the lines of the women who pushed the boundaries of what was capable. I think it does take women speaking out when they see that things are wrong. From what I witness I don't see men willing to change the status quo anytime soon. I honestly think such change on a large scale takes mothers and fathers who won't accept the same level of sexism that their parents put up with and putting this into their children. Happy to corrected on my points. As for your comments, personally I upvote them because you add something to the conversation. You have an interesting point of view.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  I do see men willing to change the status quo. They may not see exactly what needs to happen and their motives are different than those of women. But my ability to make it to the leaderboard as a woman in an overwhelmingly male forum tells you something about the men here too, not just about me. Men are also fucked over by historical gender roles. It is not true that they get all the benefits and women pay the price. Men get maimed and killed by their well paid jobs. Men have a shorter average life expectancy. Most homeless people on the street are male in part because if you can't pull your weight as a man, society basically says fuck you. The way forward is to start by acknowledging that fact and speaking to the need to improve the lives of both men and women. Simply being angry that women have less money and taking that anger out on men doesn't work. I am not simply angry that I am poor. I am angry that I am willing to work for a living and the entire world makes that an uphill battle in a way it does not do to the men. I am angry at listening to people talk about what good people they are while either actively ignoring my pleas for help or actively being in my way. Perhaps having a cow about that will get me banned or shunned or otherwise shut out of any hope of getting what I need from HN. But after 8.5 years, it is clear to me that being polite and patient isn't opening doors. So I am dead in the water anyway. I get very frustrated when women try to support my position on HN. In most cases, they are only undermining 8.5 years of very hard won progress on my part. When women make comments to me rife with their manhating personal baggage while positioning themselves as on my side, I feel both used and pissed on. It looks to me like I am being taken advantage of. If you have such admiration for me, you can stop being part of my problem. You can follow me on twitter. You can email me. You can read my blog writing and promote my blog writing, sharing it socially. You can leave a tip or support my Patreon. And maybe in a couple of years you will have learned enough to be able to make useful productive comments on HN about solving gender parity instead of making comments that make me want to tear yours to pieces just to distance myself from the blatant misandry. This is an overwhelmingly male forum. A lot of the men here are well heeled movers and shakers. Sharing your opinion that men are just assholes who don't want the status quo to change is a case of putting out the fire with gasoline. And it makes me extremely sympathetic to why so many men don't try harder. Keep your day job. Don't try to pretend to be a diplomatic ambassador in the peace accords between the sexes. You aren't qualified.