4 ms·

Not exactly thrilled by the use of the word "grumpy" since its a typical code word used to denigrate people over forty, very much like "pushy" blacks and "bitch

by ojbyrne 16y ago

Not exactly thrilled by the use of the word "grumpy" since its a typical code word used to denigrate people over forty, very much like "pushy" blacks and "bitchy" women. If Dave was 25, I'd almost guarantee you wouldn't use that word. In fact just by using that single word you've strengthened his argument.

DannoHung 16y ago
Disgruntled? No? Well, you know what I say about people who complain about "codewords"; provide a better word or shut the fuck up.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
tbrownaw 16y ago
It is, really? I know I've heard all of those words used for people not in the groups you say they're code for, and hadn't been aware of any such associations.
brilliant 16y ago
That's what they call a "dog whistle" term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics
pg 16y ago
It's impossible to imagine that post being written by someone who was 25. Seriously; go back and read it.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  Disagree. It's easy to imagine that being written by a 25 year black man in 1955, or a 25 year old woman in 1965. It's angry, not "grumpy." Concerning technology, Dave has a specific thesis in mind, that I think has at least a little merit. Quite simply, large technology companies push "innovation" that has little actual value to the public at large. They do this to create barriers to entry so that smaller companies who devote less than 100% of their resources to keep up with the technology that the big companies champion (i.e. they devote some resources to sales, marketing, creating a business) get marginalized.
  - brilliant 16y ago
    Hey it's not the companies that push this supposed innovation, it's the new crop of engineers wanting to create a hurdle for others to jump over. Some knowledge that they have exclusivity on. Engineers have been doing this since the dawn of time, but since you guys are so green you don't know that. Most engineers (like every other profession and occupation) are mediocre. They look for job security in incompatibily. I once had a programming partner who refused to document his work. I asked why after pleading with him repeatedly to leave a trail behind him. "Job security." At another place, the programmers had a slogan "comments are for sissies." Same idea. So if you take something like C and permute it slightly so that a C programmer doesn't have the skill, you now have something that makes you marketable over that person. You can snow the non-technical manager into believing that your older colleague can't cut it because he knows C and you know Javascript. In this world of mediocrity there are a very small number of gems, people who work for the user, who strive to make their tech work better for people. That's a skill that develops over the years, you get better at it every decade, because you know more about people. When you're in your 20s you don't even have a clue about yourself. And most of you commenting here are the mediocre kind of programmer (if you're programmers at all). The ones who are questioning the broad conclusions are the ones I'd want to work with, and I don't care how young or old they are. What I care about is if their minds are at work and if they can relate to other people as equals despite superficial differences like gender, race, age.
maxawaytoolong 16y ago
Winer is beyond grumpy. He's pathologically negative about everything. His whole blog is just a series of complaints. He also doesn't seem to program anymore, or know what he is talking about. Why would anyone want to hire him to do anything, regardless of his age? In contrast you have late 40s-early 50s guys like Brandon Eich and Douglas Crockford who are positive and relevant, and do uh, seem to know what makes Javascript different than C. I mean, really...

by ojbyrne 16y ago

DannoHung 16y ago

Disgruntled? No? Well, you know what I say about people who complain about "codewords"; provide a better word or shut the fuck up.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

tbrownaw 16y ago

It is, really? I know I've heard all of those words used for people not in the groups you say they're code for, and hadn't been aware of any such associations.

brilliant 16y ago

That's what they call a "dog whistle" term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

pg 16y ago

It's impossible to imagine that post being written by someone who was 25. Seriously; go back and read it.

ojbyrne 16y ago
Disagree. It's easy to imagine that being written by a 25 year black man in 1955, or a 25 year old woman in 1965. It's angry, not "grumpy." Concerning technology, Dave has a specific thesis in mind, that I think has at least a little merit. Quite simply, large technology companies push "innovation" that has little actual value to the public at large. They do this to create barriers to entry so that smaller companies who devote less than 100% of their resources to keep up with the technology that the big companies champion (i.e. they devote some resources to sales, marketing, creating a business) get marginalized.
- brilliant 16y ago
  Hey it's not the companies that push this supposed innovation, it's the new crop of engineers wanting to create a hurdle for others to jump over. Some knowledge that they have exclusivity on. Engineers have been doing this since the dawn of time, but since you guys are so green you don't know that. Most engineers (like every other profession and occupation) are mediocre. They look for job security in incompatibily. I once had a programming partner who refused to document his work. I asked why after pleading with him repeatedly to leave a trail behind him. "Job security." At another place, the programmers had a slogan "comments are for sissies." Same idea. So if you take something like C and permute it slightly so that a C programmer doesn't have the skill, you now have something that makes you marketable over that person. You can snow the non-technical manager into believing that your older colleague can't cut it because he knows C and you know Javascript. In this world of mediocrity there are a very small number of gems, people who work for the user, who strive to make their tech work better for people. That's a skill that develops over the years, you get better at it every decade, because you know more about people. When you're in your 20s you don't even have a clue about yourself. And most of you commenting here are the mediocre kind of programmer (if you're programmers at all). The ones who are questioning the broad conclusions are the ones I'd want to work with, and I don't care how young or old they are. What I care about is if their minds are at work and if they can relate to other people as equals despite superficial differences like gender, race, age.

maxawaytoolong 16y ago

Winer is beyond grumpy. He's pathologically negative about everything. His whole blog is just a series of complaints. He also doesn't seem to program anymore, or know what he is talking about. Why would anyone want to hire him to do anything, regardless of his age? In contrast you have late 40s-early 50s guys like Brandon Eich and Douglas Crockford who are positive and relevant, and do uh, seem to know what makes Javascript different than C. I mean, really...