7 ms·

> I lived in mortal fear of the day one of them realised that they could just stop paying me rent, and there's nothing I can do about it whatsoever That is of

> I lived in mortal fear of the day one of them realised that they could just stop paying me rent, and there's nothing I can do about it whatsoever That is of course false. It may be a hassle, but you can absolutely to something. And giving people housing is important, that's why the laws often favor the person renting, not the owner. The laws is a risk you have to take if you want to rent out your place. Price it into your rent. Or just don't live in "mortal fear" by not being a master tenant..

Decade 9y ago
In San Francisco, it is illegal to for a master tenant to rent a room for more than the subtenant’s proportionate share of the space. You can charge more, but hell will descend upon you once the subtenant figures it out.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  How does that even work? By floor area? That's not how pricing works!
  - closeparen 9y ago
    It prevents you from arbitraging rent control, which is great, or master leases in rent controlled buildings would never turn over at all.
    - eloisius 9y ago
      Great. Price controls to fix the unintended consequences of price controls.
BrandoElFollito 9y ago
> That is of course false. It may be a hassle, but you can absolutely to something. It depends where. In France you are completely stuck when someone dies not pay. It can take over a year to finally kick someone out. And this is just if he is not paying. If someone pays, it is simply impossible. Every three years you may take back the house for your or your close family use only. You cannot sell it empty. You cannot end the contract. You are awfully stuck.
- dalore 9y ago
  If someone dies and does not pay, and it still takes a year to kick them out, won't the body be severely decomposed then?
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    s/dies/does/ And it’ll make more sense to you.
    - BrandoElFollito 9y ago
      Thanks. The joy of commenting on a mobile...
  - snvzz 9y ago
    Objects don't get the level of protection people do.
- kaybe 9y ago
  Germany has strong tenant protection, but the situation in the article would not be protected because the tenant and the landlord share the same space. The protections are only strong if you do not share. (2 weeks notice for both parties otherwise)
- maaaats 9y ago
  > It depends where. In France you are completely stuck when someone dies not pay. It can take over a year to finally kick someone out. But then how do you kick them out? By doing something! Which was my point. Saying "nothing whatsoever to do about it" is a lie by the OP. I'm not saying all the rules are sane. But it's better to protect the weak that need roof over their heads, than the persons renting out a house they don't need. One could even argue the French law is good. If it deters people from buying properties for renting to others by making it not as lucrative, it keeps the prices down and makes housing affordable for many. Owning multiple properties and renting them out isn't a right. Having a house to live in should be.
  - 9y ago
whack 9y ago
Realistically, there's nothing I can do about it because the eviction process is so long and time consuming, that by the time I finally evict the person, my lease would be over and I'd be moving out anyway. After having given my roommate free housing for many months of course. > "Giving people housing is important" I agree! So let's make the government financially liable for any missed rent payments, while the eviction process is pending. After all, if providing its citizens with housing is so important, it should be the state's financial responsibility, not that of a random landlord whose contract was violated. I'm all for universal basic income, but not income-appropriated-from-a-few-random-landlords. > "Price it into your rent" Ah, now we get to the real rub. Everyone already does this. If you're a rich, successful individual, you have the luxury of living anywhere you want, at market prices. If you're down on your luck, but want to turn things around, you'll find that many places will refuse to accept you anyway, because the risk is too great. Or they will offer you housing at significantly higher rents, because of the additional risks involved. Either way, you're getting screwed, just because some other deadbeat thinks he's entitled to free housing at the landlord's expense.
- GFischer 9y ago
  Well, here in Uruguay, eviction is also awful, so tenants are required to pay for "rent insurance", which is awful if you're a diligent rent-payer (as it's an extra month's rent every year), but it's great for the owner - if the tenant loses one month's payments, the owner gets reimbursed for every month and the judicial arm takes care of eviction.
- TheMagicHorsey 9y ago
  Most people don't understand the second order effects you've described. The downside of so much renter-favorable protections is an increase in rent which prices out those very same renters. The person whose comment you are replying to doesn't understand that. So then when the rental market gets too hot for working people, his next demand will be that the government force landlords to rent at a particular price. So then landlords don't want to rent at that price, because they would take a loss, so they choose not to rent at all. So then the market for rental properties contracts. Then the person asks that the state appropriate the properties and rent it out directly. So then people lose their property and have no incentive to invest in property in the jurisdiction, and future workers, not interested in living in government dormitories, choose another jurisdiction to go build their companies and careers. Then this person, aged 60 at that time, will be sitting in their rundown neighborhood where all the young people have left to go to another jurisdiction, and will be muttering ... things used to be soooo good. What ever happened?
nsxwolf 9y ago
You can certainly do something, but you will lose a lot of money doing it. Where I live in Illinois it can take months. If someone isn't paying that whole time, that's a real hardship. I still rent out my old place because I took a bath in the financial crisis and I needed to move. I can't just "price it in" as I can only charge what the market will bear, which just barely covers my mortgage.
antihero 9y ago
In the UK renters only have rights if the landlord doesn't live there. If they are a "lodger" they basically have fuck all rights and can be kicked out immediately.
- winkeltripel 9y ago
  Same in Canada.
resolaibohp 9y ago
You can do something but in many cases it can be a very long and tiring battle. There are a few people who thrive on rental fraud. They understand how the system works and repeatedly take advantage of landlords to obtain free rent. An example of this: A malicious tenant can just stop paying rent, the landlord will then start the eviction process. But the tenant already anticipated this and filled for bankruptcy without the landlord knowing. That then makes it so you can no longer evict the tenant and they receive protections. This buys them even more time to live for free and the landlord is powerless. I think it is important to have tenant protections and landlord protections. I am sure there are many tenants who have a legitimate reason they cannot pay rent and should be given leniency with the expectation that they are trying to get back to normal. But when landlords come across tenants who purposely work the system in order to obtain free rent there should be a course of action the landlord can take to ensure these people cannot continue doing so. Based on my experience, and in my area, there are no real penalties for rental fraudsters, like are described in this article. This guy has been running the same scam for years against multiple people, why can this not be stopped?

Decade 9y ago

In San Francisco, it is illegal to for a master tenant to rent a room for more than the subtenant’s proportionate share of the space. You can charge more, but hell will descend upon you once the subtenant figures it out.

microcolonel 9y ago
How does that even work? By floor area? That's not how pricing works!
- closeparen 9y ago
  It prevents you from arbitraging rent control, which is great, or master leases in rent controlled buildings would never turn over at all.
  - eloisius 9y ago
    Great. Price controls to fix the unintended consequences of price controls.

BrandoElFollito 9y ago

> That is of course false. It may be a hassle, but you can absolutely to something. It depends where. In France you are completely stuck when someone dies not pay. It can take over a year to finally kick someone out. And this is just if he is not paying. If someone pays, it is simply impossible. Every three years you may take back the house for your or your close family use only. You cannot sell it empty. You cannot end the contract. You are awfully stuck.

dalore 9y ago
If someone dies and does not pay, and it still takes a year to kick them out, won't the body be severely decomposed then?
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  s/dies/does/ And it’ll make more sense to you.
  - BrandoElFollito 9y ago
    Thanks. The joy of commenting on a mobile...
- snvzz 9y ago
  Objects don't get the level of protection people do.
kaybe 9y ago
Germany has strong tenant protection, but the situation in the article would not be protected because the tenant and the landlord share the same space. The protections are only strong if you do not share. (2 weeks notice for both parties otherwise)
maaaats 9y ago
> It depends where. In France you are completely stuck when someone dies not pay. It can take over a year to finally kick someone out. But then how do you kick them out? By doing something! Which was my point. Saying "nothing whatsoever to do about it" is a lie by the OP. I'm not saying all the rules are sane. But it's better to protect the weak that need roof over their heads, than the persons renting out a house they don't need. One could even argue the French law is good. If it deters people from buying properties for renting to others by making it not as lucrative, it keeps the prices down and makes housing affordable for many. Owning multiple properties and renting them out isn't a right. Having a house to live in should be.
- 9y ago

whack 9y ago

Realistically, there's nothing I can do about it because the eviction process is so long and time consuming, that by the time I finally evict the person, my lease would be over and I'd be moving out anyway. After having given my roommate free housing for many months of course. > "Giving people housing is important" I agree! So let's make the government financially liable for any missed rent payments, while the eviction process is pending. After all, if providing its citizens with housing is so important, it should be the state's financial responsibility, not that of a random landlord whose contract was violated. I'm all for universal basic income, but not income-appropriated-from-a-few-random-landlords. > "Price it into your rent" Ah, now we get to the real rub. Everyone already does this. If you're a rich, successful individual, you have the luxury of living anywhere you want, at market prices. If you're down on your luck, but want to turn things around, you'll find that many places will refuse to accept you anyway, because the risk is too great. Or they will offer you housing at significantly higher rents, because of the additional risks involved. Either way, you're getting screwed, just because some other deadbeat thinks he's entitled to free housing at the landlord's expense.

GFischer 9y ago
Well, here in Uruguay, eviction is also awful, so tenants are required to pay for "rent insurance", which is awful if you're a diligent rent-payer (as it's an extra month's rent every year), but it's great for the owner - if the tenant loses one month's payments, the owner gets reimbursed for every month and the judicial arm takes care of eviction.
TheMagicHorsey 9y ago
Most people don't understand the second order effects you've described. The downside of so much renter-favorable protections is an increase in rent which prices out those very same renters. The person whose comment you are replying to doesn't understand that. So then when the rental market gets too hot for working people, his next demand will be that the government force landlords to rent at a particular price. So then landlords don't want to rent at that price, because they would take a loss, so they choose not to rent at all. So then the market for rental properties contracts. Then the person asks that the state appropriate the properties and rent it out directly. So then people lose their property and have no incentive to invest in property in the jurisdiction, and future workers, not interested in living in government dormitories, choose another jurisdiction to go build their companies and careers. Then this person, aged 60 at that time, will be sitting in their rundown neighborhood where all the young people have left to go to another jurisdiction, and will be muttering ... things used to be soooo good. What ever happened?

nsxwolf 9y ago

You can certainly do something, but you will lose a lot of money doing it. Where I live in Illinois it can take months. If someone isn't paying that whole time, that's a real hardship. I still rent out my old place because I took a bath in the financial crisis and I needed to move. I can't just "price it in" as I can only charge what the market will bear, which just barely covers my mortgage.

antihero 9y ago

In the UK renters only have rights if the landlord doesn't live there. If they are a "lodger" they basically have fuck all rights and can be kicked out immediately.

winkeltripel 9y ago
Same in Canada.

resolaibohp 9y ago

You can do something but in many cases it can be a very long and tiring battle. There are a few people who thrive on rental fraud. They understand how the system works and repeatedly take advantage of landlords to obtain free rent. An example of this: A malicious tenant can just stop paying rent, the landlord will then start the eviction process. But the tenant already anticipated this and filled for bankruptcy without the landlord knowing. That then makes it so you can no longer evict the tenant and they receive protections. This buys them even more time to live for free and the landlord is powerless. I think it is important to have tenant protections and landlord protections. I am sure there are many tenants who have a legitimate reason they cannot pay rent and should be given leniency with the expectation that they are trying to get back to normal. But when landlords come across tenants who purposely work the system in order to obtain free rent there should be a course of action the landlord can take to ensure these people cannot continue doing so. Based on my experience, and in my area, there are no real penalties for rental fraudsters, like are described in this article. This guy has been running the same scam for years against multiple people, why can this not be stopped?