11 ms·

The kind of tenancy laws I read in articles like these, sound absolutely idiotic. If you let someone into your home, and they aren't on the lease, you should be

• chrischen 9y ago
  SF has pretty lenient tenancy laws but even then, if someone stops paying rent, you can evict them.
  • zxcmx 9y ago
    Its a bit more complicated than that. If you are both leasing from the landlord you have equal rights and actually only the landlord can evict. If you are the master leaseholder and your roommate is subleasing then you have many of the obligations of a landlord.. which means you actually have a lot of regulations to comply with that will probably trip you up if your lessee is both malicious and litigous. Especially if the sublease was established without a contract. Usually you can get away with it bcause the kinds of people who just stop paying rent are deadbeats and won't challenge.
    • fizwhiz 9y ago
      Jian Yaaaaaaang
      • Double_a_92 9y ago
        I get the reference, but you can't joke on here! People here seem to be really serious professional guys.
        • M_Bakhtiari 9y ago
          No, you got it wrong. They love jokes, but they have a super-sophisticated sense of humour that the unwashed masses have absolutely no hope of matching.
  • jessriedel 9y ago
    Evicting someone takes many months, often more than a year. And durign that time, they have no incentive to take care of the property. It can be an economic disaster.
• megablast 9y ago
  Are you serious? So no tenants rights at all? Just because of an incredibly rare and unique situation?
  • comboy 9y ago
    I support him. If you want "tenant rights" you can sign appropriate lease contract that allows you to stay longer in case you are in some trouble. Perhaps you could also buy some insurance for that. But why owner of the property would have to keep it in hands of somebody who is not paying? Because tenant is in some bad life situation? I think in most cases if that really would be the case, property owner would help, but in general this problem is to be handled by tenant, state or charities.
    • seanp2k2 9y ago
      Professionally managed properties respond to this by issuing a “pay or quit” notice immediately when you miss a payment, then begin eviction proceedings as soon as they can. Sometimes it can take a few months, but they’ll have the cops come and escort you away if they have to. At my apartment complex, like clockwork, you’ll see folded-over papers taped to doors the first week of every month. Home owners renting a room or two might be more forgiving, but every property management place I’ve heard of doesn’t care about your life situation or whatever. You might get super lucky and get a manager willing to give you a few extra weeks to make rent, but typically they start trying to evict you as soon as they can to cover themselves.
      • refurb 9y ago
        I think understanding the law is key here, so you can reduce your risk as an owner. If it takes 2 months to evict someone, then your deposit should be 2 months and you start the process the day after rent was due.
    • rowyourboat 9y ago
      > you can sign appropriate lease contract Well, the thing is, by coming to an agreement, you automatically enter a contract. There is not need for a signed piece of paper; a written, explicit contract is just for both parties to be clear on the terms, to deviate from default terms set by law, and to make possible litigation easier. You do not need to sign a contract if you buy a piece of gum from a vending machine, yet, legally, it is the same process as buying a car. If I agree to let you stay in my apartment as your residence (that is, not simply a visit), we have entered a lease contract. Thus, tenancy laws come into effect. There is no need for a piece of paper to make what we have a lease.
• dalore 9y ago
  In the UK if the landlord lives at the same place (i.e. you live with the landlord) then you have far less rights as a tenant. Including a very short notice period.
  • HenryBemis 9y ago
    I didn't notice in the article that "they signed a lease/contract". "He signed the check in a messy scrawl" but not a contract. In the UK (and many other parts of the world) a contract is (almost) always signed before anyone moves in. Handing a checque means nothing is not bulletproof. One can claim that it was a payment for a selling an old computer (and then the courts will have to do the talking).
    • azinman2 9y ago
      But this was a roommate situation. I doubt most people sign any formal letters when hiring a roommate, as most people don’t come from a legal / business background. He also handed a check instantly to people who were desperate for money...
  • jdietrich 9y ago
    You would typically be an excluded occupier, meaning that you could be evicted with only "reasonable notice" - typically seven days. The landlord doesn't have to give a reason, you have no right to appeal and the police can remove you if you refuse to leave. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/excluded_occupiers https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_rentin...
• maaaats 9y ago
  > I lived in mortal fear of the day one of them realised that they could just stop paying me rent, and there's nothing I can do about it whatsoever That is of course false. It may be a hassle, but you can absolutely to something. And giving people housing is important, that's why the laws often favor the person renting, not the owner. The laws is a risk you have to take if you want to rent out your place. Price it into your rent. Or just don't live in "mortal fear" by not being a master tenant..
  • Decade 9y ago
    In San Francisco, it is illegal to for a master tenant to rent a room for more than the subtenant’s proportionate share of the space. You can charge more, but hell will descend upon you once the subtenant figures it out.
    • microcolonel 9y ago
      How does that even work? By floor area? That's not how pricing works!
      • closeparen 9y ago
        It prevents you from arbitraging rent control, which is great, or master leases in rent controlled buildings would never turn over at all.
        • eloisius 9y ago
          Great. Price controls to fix the unintended consequences of price controls.
  • BrandoElFollito 9y ago
    > That is of course false. It may be a hassle, but you can absolutely to something. It depends where. In France you are completely stuck when someone dies not pay. It can take over a year to finally kick someone out. And this is just if he is not paying. If someone pays, it is simply impossible. Every three years you may take back the house for your or your close family use only. You cannot sell it empty. You cannot end the contract. You are awfully stuck.
• philfrasty 9y ago
  Quickest way possible to get rid of them: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L1DTIIO https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L1DTIIO
  • pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Sure, but then you become a tenant yourself, and you no longer get a choice of roommates. Sorry - cellmates.
  • snvzz 9y ago
    Reads like an ad. There's no need for such an item, much less this specific one.
• sillysaurus3 9y ago
  If you do sign a lease with someone, and they haven't paid their rent, you should be able to throw their stuff out and change the locks as soon as their security deposit has run itself out. I hear this and I think "You probably don't know what it's like to be in that situation." It's often temporary, so a little flexibility fixes the problem. But yes, sometimes you're right. You just phrased it in a bit of an inhumane way.
  • whack 9y ago
    I agree with you. In practice, if I had a roommate who was genuinely going through some difficulties and needed 1-2 months to get back on his feet, I would help that person out. What really disturbs me is people taking advantage of the law, acting like they are entitled to free housing, and not showing gratitude/remorse for the predicament they have put others into. That's the kind of person I would want to change locks on, not the former. Perhaps my wording was too strong, and I apologise for that.
    • sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Nah, it's more of... Nowadays, it seems like the problems in the world are increasing. Programmers are probably the most insulated from the effects, but even we are starting to feel them. On HN you'd get the impression everyone makes $300k and courts VCs, but the vast majority of the audience is more along the lines of mostly broke and quiet. I know because I've talked to them. In that context, it's very important for us all to work together. And I've been trying to think of ways for us to do that. There must be something better than the rat race to the bottom, with a few survivors reaching the top by scrambling over the fallen. It's not you. It's the society around us that coaxes us into thinking the way you expressed. It's a cartoon, a caricature of real life. Very few people wouldn't be embarrassed to be an imposition on others, or feel like trash for not being able to afford rent. We're all trying, hard. But there are so many people now. And some people really aren't trying, and really do put others into weird predicaments. It's hard to mentally separate the former from the latter.
      • nordsieck 9y ago
• jeffreyrogers 9y ago
  Where I live it's pretty common to have multiple tenants in housing zoned for single-family residential use (I imagine this is true of much of the US). I'm curious whether that makes it easier or harder to evict someone.
  • rootw0rm 9y ago
    In California at least it doesn't matter. Even in an illegal dwelling the tenants have rights.
    • closeparen 9y ago
      Tenant protections are generally municipal. Suburbs don’t always have them.
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