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>>Anti-Semitic Ukrainian mass murderers don't count, no. Nor do Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs or any other useful idiots (that the Nazis considered untermensche
by Fins 9y ago
>>Anti-Semitic Ukrainian mass murderers don't count, no. Nor do Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs or any other useful idiots (that the Nazis considered untermenschen) who signed up to help Germany carry out the Final Solution and Generalplan Ost (until it was their turn).
You wrote this, not me. Collective responsibility went out of fashion long time ago.
>I said they - people who fought on the side of the Nazis, particularly against their own country, in order to enable Nazi genocide programs - don't count as victims of Communism.
How many people helped by ARA fought for nazis?
> I literally just asked you - again - what part of the USSR you are from and again you didn't answer.
Moscow. Do you need a street address as well?
> To have even first hand memories, let alone experience, of even the most recent subjects you've talked about you'd have to be about 75 years old. Are you?
You do not need to be anywhere near that old to have experience with, for example, Soviet antisemitism.
> Nice to know that you think the topic of the treatment of Jews constitutes reducing an argument, even in a reply where you were criticizing the anti-Semitism of Stalin (the same Stalin who set up a Jewish homeland on Soviet soil, and was the first person in the world to recognize Israel).
Yeah. I heard there were even a few Jews who went there without being forcibly put into railcars.
> hile ignoring deliberate, systematic and industrial-scale human extermination programs and policies - absolutely unheard of anywhere else in history, before or since - enacted by the Nazis.
Actually, well-heard of, if you care to listen, in every country where communists came to power. You may want to look up one Asian politician with potential. He was really good at making sure his citizens would never engage in any atrocities you would not6 approve of.
> No, the question was about you. Specifically how your life would have been improved had you lived under Nazi occupation, since you argue that what you lived under - Communism - is "quite a bit worse" (your words) than Nazism.
Yes, I noticed, you seem to think that as long as you and yours are fine, it does not matter if millions of other people are killed.
> As I said, like spending their time arguing that what the Nazis did was very minor - "they killed far fewer people" - compared to something else.
Are you saying that those who had killed more people are perfectly fine, as long as they were killing people you do not particularly approve of?
> Again, what kind of person would even think of bothering to exonerate or rehabilitate the Nazis in such a way?
Does not seem to stop you from exonerating communists, who did kill more people.
> The authors of the book could not even decide amongst themselves on which imaginary - but definitely Worse Than The Nazis(tm) - number
Yes, I did notice, you do not consider those killed to be people (hmm, what does it remind one of?), certainly not worth counting.
> Meanwhile MAGA-heads, up to and including the White House itself, cite the number that even the authors - even you - think is going too far (not because it's made up, but because it looks made up).
What does it have to do with anything?
> Since only one number can be true, we know for a certain fact that most of the numbers given have to be false. So why believe any of them?
Yeah, I have heard there are quite a few people who do not think that many Jews were killed by nazis. And there are different numbers, too. Are you sure this is the direction you want to go in?
> I don't. What, specifically, do you mean?
Who, do you think, those people really do not like to associate with?
- Tech-Noir 9y ago> You wrote this, not me. I'm not sure what point you're missing here. If you invade another country, particularly with the intention of commiting genocide there, and you get killed for doing so, you are not a victim of the country you were trying to wipe out, or its ideology, you're a victim of your own actions. > Yes, I noticed, you seem to think that as long as you and yours are fine, it does not matter if millions of other people are killed. Okay, explain how the lives of the majority of people in Russia would have been improved under Nazi occupation than under Communism. > Are you saying that those who had killed more people are perfectly fine, as long as they were killing people you do not particularly approve of? "Communism" has not killed more people. That's simply a fantasy based on an absurd publication denounced as fictitious even by its own authors. > communists, who did kill more people So you keep insisting. Who are you trying to convince, me or you? > you do not consider those killed to be people [...] worth counting. I don't believe people who were not killed by Communism should be counted as being killed by Communism. > What does it have to do with anything? What does any of this thread have to do with your incorrect insistence, supported by no credible source, that the famine of 1921 was a "forced famine"? > I have heard there are quite a few people who do not think that many Jews were killed by nazis. And there are different numbers, too And do you accept any of their different numbers? > Who, do you think, those people really do not like to associate with? This is you being not cagey again, I presume.
- Fins 9y ago> I'm not sure what point you're missing here. If you invade another country, particularly with the intention of commiting genocide there, and you get killed for doing so, you are not a victim of the country you were trying to wipe out, or its ideology, you're a victim of your own actions. You do realize that it was the USSR (or Soviet Russia, depends on timing) that invaded Baltics, Western Ukraine, Central Asia, etc. etc. You may want to stop arguing about your fantasies and try talking about something that has basis in actual history. > Okay, explain how the lives of the majority of people in Russia would have been improved under Nazi occupation than under Communism. Ethnic makeup of survivors would be different. It is very much uncertain if the numbers would be much different. You do realize that mortality in Soviet prison camps during peace time was same or higher than in German labor camps (obviously not extermination camps) during the war? > "Communism" has not killed more people. That's simply a fantasy based on an absurd publication denounced as fictitious even by its own authors. Sadly, it is a basic fact, arguments are only about by how much exactly. Saloth Sar alone did ~1/10th of what Nazis did, and that without even invading anyone. Bleatings of "Marxist historians" or useful idiots like Chomsky do not qualify as valid criticism anywhere. > So you keep insisting. Who are you trying to convince, me or you? I am just stating an obvious, well-attested fact. > I don't believe people who were not killed by Communism should be counted as being killed by Communism. Are you going to play the well-tired card of "but Stalin (Mao, etc. etc.) were not real, proper communists? > What does any of this thread have to do with your incorrect insistence, supported by no credible source, that the famine of 1921 was a "forced famine"? Taking the last grain, including seed grain, from, peasants (e.g. Prodrazverstka; you may want to look in Lenin's collected works for details) is exactly that -- forced famine. > And do you accept any of their different numbers? No, should I? You seem to be perfectly happy to take any number that makes your murderous heroes look good. > This is you being not cagey again, I presume. (sigh)