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"Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media. I’m not sure if I have any other options. Coul

by Towle_ 16y ago

"Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media. I’m not sure if I have any other options. Could you help me? Person B: I don’t have time. Just use PXE." The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point. If Person A is unwilling to ask what PXE is for fear of looking stupid, then they sure as shit aren't going to explicitly ask for help. Person A is only asking for help because she made them ask for help. That doesn't make any sense. If the problem here is communication like she says it is, she could at least provide a realistic communication scenario. How that conversation really went down: Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media. Person B: Just use PXE. Oh snap. Now Person B seems like less of a complete asshole. He just thinks he's being asked an information question, not a request for ongoing help and support. The author is right, there is a communication problem. And she's part of it. "Do you see what Person B did wrong, here? Person A was asking for help, and clearly does not know about netbooting (or they wouldn’t have asked). Person B assumes they know what PXE is and that they know how to use it, or at least that they can figure it out for themselves." The only thing Person B did was give Person A enough credit to assume they were on the same level, probably thinking PXE just slipped Person A's mind. Do you get it? Person B's not being elitist. He's being the opposite of that. He's assuming that if you have any further questions, you'll just ask them because you shouldn't feel embarrassed to do so. But more impotantly: WHY THE HELL ARE WE NOT DISCUSSING WHAT PERSON A DID WRONG? If you don't know what PXE is, the solution is not to complain about the vast culture of elitism in the technology industry. The solution is to get over yourself and ask what PXE is.

endlessvoid94 16y ago
> The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point. I have been in these situations. They aren't bullshit. When you get a ton of good hackers in one area and a newbie comes in, it's a crapshoot. Nobody wants to hold someone's hand while they stumble around, fucking everything up in the process. "I've got things to do." It's NOT a bullshit situation.
- Towle_ 16y ago
  That's not what I'm calling bullshit. Keep reading.
  - endlessvoid94 16y ago
    Yes it is. You're saying person A is to blame, at least a little bit. And you're wrong. Person A is just trying to learn. Person A is doing everything they know how to do in order to further their knowledge. They asked. They googled. They spent an hour trying to figure it out on their own. Why didn't they just ask person B again? Because they got shut out the first time. They got a response that told them "fuck off, you're not worth my time. i'm busy" instead of "Sorry, you should read about using PXE to netboot from the BIOS". They just said "use pxe". If a person doesn't know about pxe, they sure as hell don't know that it requires BIOS settings. Person A is doing everything he/she can to learn. And Person B is being an obstacle.
    - Towle_ 16y ago
      Person A is doing everything he/she can to learn. Except ask what PXE is. If they had done that, Person B would've known that they needed all the help you're talking about, but he didn't because Person A didn't ask. People aren't mindreaders.
      - endlessvoid94 16y ago
        The fact that Person A didn't know that he could use PXE to solve his problem ILLUSTRATES that he doesn't know what PXE is. He shouldn't need to take step 2 and ask "What's PXE?" because it's OBVIOUS. You don't need to be a mindreader.
        scott_s 16y ago
        If you're going to expect the person with the answers to take the mental effort to figure out what the questioner does and does not understand, then I think it's also reasonable to expect the questioner to be honest and say "I don't understand what you just said" when it's true. You claim it's obvious what the questioner does not know. I claim it's not. This is why teaching is hard. Having the answers is not enough. The hard part is sussing out what the student's incomplete or incorrect understanding is, then guiding them to something more complete and correct. This takes time, patience, and a surprising amount of effort on the part of the teacher. If you don't believe me, then try teaching people with zero programming experience how to program. When it's someone's job to do that, well, that's their job. Students are often reluctant to say "I don't know what you just said." I had to read their faces to gauge understanding, or I'd have to ask them to repeat back to me, in their own words, what I just explained. But we're talking about peers. And if peers are going to learn from each other, then there should be an understanding that teaching is hard, and that the person asking the questions has just as much (if not more) of a duty to be honest.
Estragon 16y ago
Context is important, here. The author is the chairman of SIPB, a group of students at MIT who spend part of their time helping anyone who happens by the SIPB office with computer problems. A low level of computer knowledge on the part of the questioner is the correct default assumption in her context.

by Towle_ 16y ago

endlessvoid94 16y ago

> The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point. I have been in these situations. They aren't bullshit. When you get a ton of good hackers in one area and a newbie comes in, it's a crapshoot. Nobody wants to hold someone's hand while they stumble around, fucking everything up in the process. "I've got things to do." It's NOT a bullshit situation.

Towle_ 16y ago
That's not what I'm calling bullshit. Keep reading.
- endlessvoid94 16y ago
  Yes it is. You're saying person A is to blame, at least a little bit. And you're wrong. Person A is just trying to learn. Person A is doing everything they know how to do in order to further their knowledge. They asked. They googled. They spent an hour trying to figure it out on their own. Why didn't they just ask person B again? Because they got shut out the first time. They got a response that told them "fuck off, you're not worth my time. i'm busy" instead of "Sorry, you should read about using PXE to netboot from the BIOS". They just said "use pxe". If a person doesn't know about pxe, they sure as hell don't know that it requires BIOS settings. Person A is doing everything he/she can to learn. And Person B is being an obstacle.
  - Towle_ 16y ago
    Person A is doing everything he/she can to learn. Except ask what PXE is. If they had done that, Person B would've known that they needed all the help you're talking about, but he didn't because Person A didn't ask. People aren't mindreaders.
    - endlessvoid94 16y ago
      The fact that Person A didn't know that he could use PXE to solve his problem ILLUSTRATES that he doesn't know what PXE is. He shouldn't need to take step 2 and ask "What's PXE?" because it's OBVIOUS. You don't need to be a mindreader.
      - scott_s 16y ago
        If you're going to expect the person with the answers to take the mental effort to figure out what the questioner does and does not understand, then I think it's also reasonable to expect the questioner to be honest and say "I don't understand what you just said" when it's true. You claim it's obvious what the questioner does not know. I claim it's not. This is why teaching is hard. Having the answers is not enough. The hard part is sussing out what the student's incomplete or incorrect understanding is, then guiding them to something more complete and correct. This takes time, patience, and a surprising amount of effort on the part of the teacher. If you don't believe me, then try teaching people with zero programming experience how to program. When it's someone's job to do that, well, that's their job. Students are often reluctant to say "I don't know what you just said." I had to read their faces to gauge understanding, or I'd have to ask them to repeat back to me, in their own words, what I just explained. But we're talking about peers. And if peers are going to learn from each other, then there should be an understanding that teaching is hard, and that the person asking the questions has just as much (if not more) of a duty to be honest.

Estragon 16y ago

Context is important, here. The author is the chairman of SIPB, a group of students at MIT who spend part of their time helping anyone who happens by the SIPB office with computer problems. A low level of computer knowledge on the part of the questioner is the correct default assumption in her context.