7 ms·

So can anyone tell me why we should support what China is doing? Why should any entrepreneur or tech worker go there and support this government? How come China

by pentae 9y ago

So can anyone tell me why we should support what China is doing? Why should any entrepreneur or tech worker go there and support this government? How come China seems to get a free pass on human rights issues like this by western society?

yusuke10 9y ago
So the short answer is, don't support China. Long answer is - reduce buying stuff from China. - reduce buying stuff on aliexpress or alibaba or even amazon. try buying local - call out leaders and entrepreneurs on social media when they are acquiescing/favorable to China (Tim Cook, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, etc) - try to start up manufacturing of hardwares in your city/state/country - call out China's totalitarianism in your circle of influence
- devwinportable 9y ago
  +1 especially with China backing North Korean regime publicly/privately
_cs2017_ 9y ago
Because keeping a large diverse country stable and safe is very difficult, and a failure causes enormous tragedy. The approach that works to keep the US stable does not always work well in other countries. To keep the billion people who live in China safe from civil war and rampant terrorism is already a great achievement -- even it comes at the expense of some nice things such as human rights. In fact, China manages to do more than just keep itself stable; it's actually improving economically. That state of affairs is a lot better than many, many countries can even dream about. A push for human rights increases the chance of a government collapse. That's what happened in the Soviet Russia during Gorbachev. It was everyone's luck that it resulted in relatively little suffering. A similar fall of the government in Syria, Yugoslavia, Iraq, etc were absolutely horrible for the people living in those countries. It is very hard to accept even a small risk of such an event in China; the suffering it would cause is beyond imagination. Therefore, many people are quite happy with the approach followed by the Chinese government. In fact, it gives many people a hope that China might become a little similar to Singapore. The Singapore government has some issues with human rights (of course, much more modest than China), but is still highly respected both inside and outside the country precisely due to the prosperity and safety it brought to people. Of course, for people who absolutely prioritize human rights, this is not good enough. But such people have relatively little influence outside the Western civilization. One certainly cannot blame people who prioritize the safety and prosperity of their family above human rights, and these people seem to be by far the majority of the Chinese population.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > A push for human rights increases the chance of a government collapse. That's what happened in the Soviet Russia during Gorbachev Strictly, no. That was the USSR. Soviet Russia (the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) didn't experience government collapse, though it did change its name to the Russian Federation.
  - _cs2017_ 9y ago
    Yes yes, I misused the term. I meant the USSR, of course.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  The ruling ethnic elite (and fully 91.51% of the population as of 2010) are Han Chinese, and you could say they enforce somewhat of an ethnostate. Foreigners cannot become citizens even if they marry a native Chinese and contribute to their economy.
  - _cs2017_ 9y ago
    Yes. I don't disagree.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Is that rule true even if, say, a Han Chinese citizen marries as second generation USAmerican+Han person?
    - barry-cotter 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_law_of_the_People%... In practice, naturalizing as a Chinese national is extremely rare, even more so when the sheer population of the region is taken into account and compared to other comparable regions, such as the European Union, United States and India. Majority of foreign permanent residents simply remain that for the duration of their residency, without ever being asked or forced to naturalize. During the Fifth National Population Census (2000), only 941 naturalized citizens that do not belong to any of Communist Party of China's recognized 56 indigenous ethnic groups (which already includes Koreans, Vietnamese, and Russians)[13] were counted in China's mainland.[14] As of 2010, the total number of naturalized Chinese was only 1,448 in Mainland China, out of the population of over 1.33 billion. In 1990, there were over 3,000.[15] More foreigners have applied for naturalization as Chinese nationals with permanent residency of Hong Kong since the handover in 1997. Among Hong Kong residents from 1997 to 2012, 3,411 Pakistanis, 3,399 Indonesians, 2,487 Indians, 1,115 Vietnamese, and 387 Filipinos have been naturalized.[16] One case of mass naturalization occurred in 2003, when less than 200 Damans, an ethnic-Nepali people who had resided in Gyirong County of Tibet for over two centuries, were granted Chinese nationality. The serial numbers on their naturalization certificates suggested that around 4,000 people (including the Damans) had naturalized as Chinese nationals in Mainland China until 2003.[17]
Arn_Thor 9y ago
Because hypocrisy, money and self-interest go hand in hand. Why does western society support Israel, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bangladesh, and the list goes on and on. It's all self interest and mutual benefits
mmjaa 9y ago
For the same reason the Coalition of the West, currently doing everything it can to perpetuate World War Three in the Middle East, gets away with its heinous activities: out of sight, out of mind. Nobody cares about oppression until it directly effects them, and these days: by the time you're effected by it, its too late. I'm less concerned with suppression of human rights in China than I am with the Imperialist destruction of civilisation that the West has been engaged in, all over the Middle East. But! That does not mean I'm not concerned about China, as an individual. Its just that there are worse things to worry about than China.
whooshee 9y ago
Okay, why would the world still 'support' the U.S.? Given the U.S. and her other allies starting wars in middle east, so many innocent lives were taken. And the U.S. got away easily even no WMD found in Iraq. Many things are partially ordered. Normal people in Xinjiang would prefer a stable Xinjiang not some groups' idealized usually chaotic one. Speaking of human right, raising living standards is the most pressing issue in China, and there are still many poor people in China need the help from the gov't. When they got richer, there will be more middle-class buy things from the West and the rest of the world. Some countries can still bash China on many issues whereas making bigger deals with China at the same time. China is still an entry level player on that. The world cannot leave the U.S. and China and any countries on this planet even though I guess quite a few folks hate each other. Because they buy things from each other. Money talks, if you will.

by pentae 9y ago

yusuke10 9y ago

So the short answer is, don't support China. Long answer is - reduce buying stuff from China. - reduce buying stuff on aliexpress or alibaba or even amazon. try buying local - call out leaders and entrepreneurs on social media when they are acquiescing/favorable to China (Tim Cook, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, etc) - try to start up manufacturing of hardwares in your city/state/country - call out China's totalitarianism in your circle of influence

devwinportable 9y ago
+1 especially with China backing North Korean regime publicly/privately

_cs2017_ 9y ago

Because keeping a large diverse country stable and safe is very difficult, and a failure causes enormous tragedy. The approach that works to keep the US stable does not always work well in other countries. To keep the billion people who live in China safe from civil war and rampant terrorism is already a great achievement -- even it comes at the expense of some nice things such as human rights. In fact, China manages to do more than just keep itself stable; it's actually improving economically. That state of affairs is a lot better than many, many countries can even dream about. A push for human rights increases the chance of a government collapse. That's what happened in the Soviet Russia during Gorbachev. It was everyone's luck that it resulted in relatively little suffering. A similar fall of the government in Syria, Yugoslavia, Iraq, etc were absolutely horrible for the people living in those countries. It is very hard to accept even a small risk of such an event in China; the suffering it would cause is beyond imagination. Therefore, many people are quite happy with the approach followed by the Chinese government. In fact, it gives many people a hope that China might become a little similar to Singapore. The Singapore government has some issues with human rights (of course, much more modest than China), but is still highly respected both inside and outside the country precisely due to the prosperity and safety it brought to people. Of course, for people who absolutely prioritize human rights, this is not good enough. But such people have relatively little influence outside the Western civilization. One certainly cannot blame people who prioritize the safety and prosperity of their family above human rights, and these people seem to be by far the majority of the Chinese population.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> A push for human rights increases the chance of a government collapse. That's what happened in the Soviet Russia during Gorbachev Strictly, no. That was the USSR. Soviet Russia (the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) didn't experience government collapse, though it did change its name to the Russian Federation.
- _cs2017_ 9y ago
  Yes yes, I misused the term. I meant the USSR, of course.
ghostcluster 9y ago
The ruling ethnic elite (and fully 91.51% of the population as of 2010) are Han Chinese, and you could say they enforce somewhat of an ethnostate. Foreigners cannot become citizens even if they marry a native Chinese and contribute to their economy.
- _cs2017_ 9y ago
  Yes. I don't disagree.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Is that rule true even if, say, a Han Chinese citizen marries as second generation USAmerican+Han person?
  - barry-cotter 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_law_of_the_People%... In practice, naturalizing as a Chinese national is extremely rare, even more so when the sheer population of the region is taken into account and compared to other comparable regions, such as the European Union, United States and India. Majority of foreign permanent residents simply remain that for the duration of their residency, without ever being asked or forced to naturalize. During the Fifth National Population Census (2000), only 941 naturalized citizens that do not belong to any of Communist Party of China's recognized 56 indigenous ethnic groups (which already includes Koreans, Vietnamese, and Russians)[13] were counted in China's mainland.[14] As of 2010, the total number of naturalized Chinese was only 1,448 in Mainland China, out of the population of over 1.33 billion. In 1990, there were over 3,000.[15] More foreigners have applied for naturalization as Chinese nationals with permanent residency of Hong Kong since the handover in 1997. Among Hong Kong residents from 1997 to 2012, 3,411 Pakistanis, 3,399 Indonesians, 2,487 Indians, 1,115 Vietnamese, and 387 Filipinos have been naturalized.[16] One case of mass naturalization occurred in 2003, when less than 200 Damans, an ethnic-Nepali people who had resided in Gyirong County of Tibet for over two centuries, were granted Chinese nationality. The serial numbers on their naturalization certificates suggested that around 4,000 people (including the Damans) had naturalized as Chinese nationals in Mainland China until 2003.[17]

Arn_Thor 9y ago

Because hypocrisy, money and self-interest go hand in hand. Why does western society support Israel, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bangladesh, and the list goes on and on. It's all self interest and mutual benefits

mmjaa 9y ago

For the same reason the Coalition of the West, currently doing everything it can to perpetuate World War Three in the Middle East, gets away with its heinous activities: out of sight, out of mind. Nobody cares about oppression until it directly effects them, and these days: by the time you're effected by it, its too late. I'm less concerned with suppression of human rights in China than I am with the Imperialist destruction of civilisation that the West has been engaged in, all over the Middle East. But! That does not mean I'm not concerned about China, as an individual. Its just that there are worse things to worry about than China.

whooshee 9y ago

Okay, why would the world still 'support' the U.S.? Given the U.S. and her other allies starting wars in middle east, so many innocent lives were taken. And the U.S. got away easily even no WMD found in Iraq. Many things are partially ordered. Normal people in Xinjiang would prefer a stable Xinjiang not some groups' idealized usually chaotic one. Speaking of human right, raising living standards is the most pressing issue in China, and there are still many poor people in China need the help from the gov't. When they got richer, there will be more middle-class buy things from the West and the rest of the world. Some countries can still bash China on many issues whereas making bigger deals with China at the same time. China is still an entry level player on that. The world cannot leave the U.S. and China and any countries on this planet even though I guess quite a few folks hate each other. Because they buy things from each other. Money talks, if you will.