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> why is it so hard to not be a jerk to other people? That's really the essence of "being PC". Treat others with respect. Not really. "Political correctness"

> why is it so hard to not be a jerk to other people? That's really the essence of "being PC". Treat others with respect. Not really. "Political correctness" encompasses a set of values that aren't the only good values. There are other positive values that are incompatible with it in one way or another. Saying "it's just about not being an asshole" is just a way of claiming everyone with different values than you is an asshole.

intopieces 9y ago
Which positive values are incompatible with political correctness?
- Slansitartop 9y ago
  An obvious one drops out if you take apart the term "politically correct" itself and think about it: the value that people should independently make their own judgements, potentially against pressure to conform. That's incompatible because political correctness requires conformity; either to a political authority or a zeitgeist, from which an individual is not allowed to stray far.
- fowsefnmw3 9y ago
  Undocumented immigrants increase the supply of labor, and therefore applies downward price pressure. If you are someone who trims/removes trees, reducing this foreign labor arbitrage is a positive. (While undocumented immigration may be a positive for efficiency/economy as a whole, it certainly is not if you are facing increasing competition as a supplier of a service)
  - Slansitartop 9y ago
    That's not really a value, but more of an economic analysis [1]. Translated into a values, I'd say it'd be something like "focus on helping your long-term community members," meaning you'd try to preserve your local tree-trimmer's standard of living. The conflicting PC value is something like "focus on helping newcomers, regardless of any negative effects on your community's existing members," meaning you'd support the immigrants and immigration, even if it pushes your local tree-trimmer into poverty. [1] I'm starting to get annoyed with how economics seems to be used as a substitute for so many ways of thinking that it's totally unsuited to replace. Not just here, but all kinds of discussions. It has too firm a hold on people's minds.
commandlinefan 9y ago
In fact, as far as I can tell, "being a jerk" and "being politically incorrect" are actually completely orthogonal. I've interacted with lots of jerks (and shared freeways with them too) who weren't being in any way politically incorrect - and I've observed people who have been fired from jobs for being politically incorrect even though they were actually incredibly polite about it.

intopieces 9y ago

Which positive values are incompatible with political correctness?

Slansitartop 9y ago
An obvious one drops out if you take apart the term "politically correct" itself and think about it: the value that people should independently make their own judgements, potentially against pressure to conform. That's incompatible because political correctness requires conformity; either to a political authority or a zeitgeist, from which an individual is not allowed to stray far.
fowsefnmw3 9y ago
Undocumented immigrants increase the supply of labor, and therefore applies downward price pressure. If you are someone who trims/removes trees, reducing this foreign labor arbitrage is a positive. (While undocumented immigration may be a positive for efficiency/economy as a whole, it certainly is not if you are facing increasing competition as a supplier of a service)
- Slansitartop 9y ago
  That's not really a value, but more of an economic analysis [1]. Translated into a values, I'd say it'd be something like "focus on helping your long-term community members," meaning you'd try to preserve your local tree-trimmer's standard of living. The conflicting PC value is something like "focus on helping newcomers, regardless of any negative effects on your community's existing members," meaning you'd support the immigrants and immigration, even if it pushes your local tree-trimmer into poverty. [1] I'm starting to get annoyed with how economics seems to be used as a substitute for so many ways of thinking that it's totally unsuited to replace. Not just here, but all kinds of discussions. It has too firm a hold on people's minds.

commandlinefan 9y ago

In fact, as far as I can tell, "being a jerk" and "being politically incorrect" are actually completely orthogonal. I've interacted with lots of jerks (and shared freeways with them too) who weren't being in any way politically incorrect - and I've observed people who have been fired from jobs for being politically incorrect even though they were actually incredibly polite about it.