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It is worth pointing out that “ability” here is being measured by standardized tests, such as SAT and ACT. This could reflect underlying differences between sex

It is worth pointing out that “ability” here is being measured by standardized tests, such as SAT and ACT. This could reflect underlying differences between sexes, or that by the time people are categorized as being in the top 5% social/cultural bias has already had an effect.

stcredzero 9y ago
The measurement of general intelligence is just about the most strongly predictive tool in Psychology. Here's some things from Thomas Sowell's Migrations and Cultures that people don't know about intelligence as measured by groups. Polish and Italian immigrant communities went from the mid-80's average IQ to over 100 over the 1st half of the 20th century. Poles had increased their average IQ to 108. In another study, African American children of US service people growing up in Germany had the same average IQs as their classmates. So could factors outside of genetics, like culture, have powerful effects on IQ? It certainly looks like it. Advocates of Social Justice should be looking for what these factors are. Whatever those factors are, not seeking to deliver them to underprivileged groups is like letting lead get into the water of Flint Michigan: It can mean huge differences in the IQs of growing children. Instead, what I see from the far left, is the willful suppression of such information. If it doesn't fit the political agenda and narrative, then it's a-priori a product of bigotry or bias of some kind. Sorry, but that strikes me as cynical and very odd. It's almost like someone cares more about power than the welfare of the underprivileged. More on the specific topic of the op, the SAT and ACT certainly don't measure everything. Perhaps there is some kind of bias in workplace culture that puts too much emphasis on the skills well measured by such tests, while other kinds of skills are underappreciated? My intuitive sense, considering what tech is like, is that it's probably true.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  Measurement of general intelligence isn’t part of this study.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    I thought that ACT and SAT scores were used as a proxy for the measurement of general intelligence.
    - nugi 9y ago
      Proxy is the key word here. There are many more biases in SAT, ACT, than most general intelligence tests.
      - stcredzero 9y ago
        [citation needed] A lot of criticism about intelligence tests are ideologically driven, because underprivileged groups score low, and in many regions that have suffered the most from colonialism, underprivileged groups score low. I think that what we will find is that being underprivileged affects intelligence quite strongly. Sephardic Jews were at the center of worldwide Jewish culture. Their cultural contributions and success in society would suggest that as a population they were probably quite intelligent during their heyday. Today, Ashkenazi Jews are known to have a high average group IQ, higher than current day Sephardic Jews. I suspect that ideological knee-jerk fear driven suppression of IQ research on underprivileged groups is keeping our society from realizing interventions which can help groups by driving up their average IQ scores. We have historical evidence from the US that underprivileged groups with below average IQs can be changed.
  - hprotagonist 9y ago
    SAT scores correlate better than you'd think with IQ as a measure of G. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=...
nugi 9y ago
Very true, we only get correlation with this. I wonder how much the ACT and SAT scores differ compared to each other. It is well known the SAT tests more learned (larger social bias) abilities than the ACT. It may provide more perspective to your point.

stcredzero 9y ago

The measurement of general intelligence is just about the most strongly predictive tool in Psychology. Here's some things from Thomas Sowell's Migrations and Cultures that people don't know about intelligence as measured by groups. Polish and Italian immigrant communities went from the mid-80's average IQ to over 100 over the 1st half of the 20th century. Poles had increased their average IQ to 108. In another study, African American children of US service people growing up in Germany had the same average IQs as their classmates. So could factors outside of genetics, like culture, have powerful effects on IQ? It certainly looks like it. Advocates of Social Justice should be looking for what these factors are. Whatever those factors are, not seeking to deliver them to underprivileged groups is like letting lead get into the water of Flint Michigan: It can mean huge differences in the IQs of growing children. Instead, what I see from the far left, is the willful suppression of such information. If it doesn't fit the political agenda and narrative, then it's a-priori a product of bigotry or bias of some kind. Sorry, but that strikes me as cynical and very odd. It's almost like someone cares more about power than the welfare of the underprivileged. More on the specific topic of the op, the SAT and ACT certainly don't measure everything. Perhaps there is some kind of bias in workplace culture that puts too much emphasis on the skills well measured by such tests, while other kinds of skills are underappreciated? My intuitive sense, considering what tech is like, is that it's probably true.

IntronExon 9y ago
Measurement of general intelligence isn’t part of this study.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  I thought that ACT and SAT scores were used as a proxy for the measurement of general intelligence.
  - nugi 9y ago
    Proxy is the key word here. There are many more biases in SAT, ACT, than most general intelligence tests.
    - stcredzero 9y ago
      [citation needed] A lot of criticism about intelligence tests are ideologically driven, because underprivileged groups score low, and in many regions that have suffered the most from colonialism, underprivileged groups score low. I think that what we will find is that being underprivileged affects intelligence quite strongly. Sephardic Jews were at the center of worldwide Jewish culture. Their cultural contributions and success in society would suggest that as a population they were probably quite intelligent during their heyday. Today, Ashkenazi Jews are known to have a high average group IQ, higher than current day Sephardic Jews. I suspect that ideological knee-jerk fear driven suppression of IQ research on underprivileged groups is keeping our society from realizing interventions which can help groups by driving up their average IQ scores. We have historical evidence from the US that underprivileged groups with below average IQs can be changed.
- hprotagonist 9y ago
  SAT scores correlate better than you'd think with IQ as a measure of G. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=...

nugi 9y ago

Very true, we only get correlation with this. I wonder how much the ACT and SAT scores differ compared to each other. It is well known the SAT tests more learned (larger social bias) abilities than the ACT. It may provide more perspective to your point.