5 ms·

For those not in poverty what you describe is -- indirectly -- a feature not a bug Schools are disappearing because there is no tax base to support them, and t

For those not in poverty what you describe is -- indirectly -- a feature not a bug Schools are disappearing because there is no tax base to support them, and the remaining residents tend to favor an austere government. There's also a degree of distrust of governmental organizations. There are a lot of small towns where, if the state government came in and said "We're going to build you a school for free and you won't have to pay for anything" there would be a lot of belly-aching about how the bus traffic would increase wear-and-tear on roads, causing more roadwork, raising taxes. My father lives in rural Wisconsin. Every political season, there's a wave of people running for office trying to reduce the county's tax burden from the 2nd smallest to the 1st smallest in the state, by basically completely gutting what already meager community amenities are provided. Each year they get closer to sweeping the county elections.

stevenwoo 9y ago
The little town in Texas that voted to put libertarians in charge is a decent cautionary tale. https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/ https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-frees...
- prewett 9y ago
  After reading the article I'd say that the problems were caused primarily by personal conflicts. Any problems with libertarian philosophy did not have a chance to surface because they were completely swamped by the dysfunction of town leaders.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    They tried to have their cake and eat it too. I think that played no small part. They incorporated as a town to save their way of life as an unincorporated community then got greedy and tried to to town things without a town budget.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    A weird tangent - this may be the mother of all libertarian - libertarian conflicts - Nick Denton versus Peter Thiel. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/02/hogan-thiel-gawker-trial/554132/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/02/hogan-t...
tbihl 9y ago
I'm just going to point out regarding schools: if you let the state come build it for you, you're probably going to get a big, deadly dumpster fire of a school. It'll be a regional consolidated school so they can put a huge educational campus all in one place. It'll be far from any town because that's where the land is cheap. Everyone will have to choose between driving their kids to school or putting them on hour-long bus rides. And it'll abut a road where the 85th percentile speed is in excess of 50mph, which is not the smartest place for a hive of people who are immature and inadequately familiar with their own mortality. And some of them will probably be driving to it, too. Then 25 years from now, those kids will find the asterisk from the state where they find themselves liable for all the maintenance on the huge complex they couldn't afford in the first place when the ceiling is leaking and there are cracks growing in the gymnasium's walls. Hard to imagine why they don't have much affection for the programs provided by taxation. Admittedly, it's petty to take those grievances out on the local government, which probably provides the only public services they like. But when all you hear about is federal and state foolishness, and all you can affect is your own town, the misplaced anger isn't that surprising.
- bllguo 9y ago
  Thanks for the perspective. And because of things like this, rural folk don't want "our" help. They fall further behind, become more insular and hateful. Self-reinforcing cycle. Solving these problems is extremely important and will likely involve harsh tradeoffs. Unfortunately, in the US it feels like we need some dramatic examples before people will finally accept that tradeoffs are necessary.
  - hermitdev 9y ago
    Let me preface by: I don't mean to offend, but I think your perception is fundamentally wrong. Rural folk don't want help from your "our" because their situation is different than yours. What works for major metropolitan areas doesn't work for small or rural schools. In an area where likely career paths involve working on or inheriting the family farm or ranch, more urban-centric curricula don't make sense. It's not that rural people in the US are more insular, it's that they need to be more independent. For instance, when the nearest ambulance may be an hour away, you learn to deal with emergency medical issues yourself, or you or your loved one die. When that ambulance cannot get to your house when the husband is having a heart attack, the wife somehow manages to get her husband into a vehicle to meet the ambulance somewhere the ambulance can reach. When the nearest sheriff is likewise an hour away when you call for help, if you even have 911, the sheriff is likely going to assume you have a shotgun, tell you to get it out, load it, and use it, if necessary. It's not that rural people in the US are insular or unaware of the rest of the US, it's that their situations are entirely different from what city dwellers encounter. Ambulances, police and fire response aren't just a few minutes away. It can be hours before emergency services arrive. And likewise, getting to even your local school that graduates at a HS level can take an hour or more. Getting to a college or university likely will take even longer. edit: grammar, spelling, minor bit of clarity.

stevenwoo 9y ago

The little town in Texas that voted to put libertarians in charge is a decent cautionary tale. https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/ https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-frees...

prewett 9y ago
After reading the article I'd say that the problems were caused primarily by personal conflicts. Any problems with libertarian philosophy did not have a chance to surface because they were completely swamped by the dysfunction of town leaders.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  They tried to have their cake and eat it too. I think that played no small part. They incorporated as a town to save their way of life as an unincorporated community then got greedy and tried to to town things without a town budget.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  A weird tangent - this may be the mother of all libertarian - libertarian conflicts - Nick Denton versus Peter Thiel. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/02/hogan-thiel-gawker-trial/554132/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/02/hogan-t...

tbihl 9y ago

I'm just going to point out regarding schools: if you let the state come build it for you, you're probably going to get a big, deadly dumpster fire of a school. It'll be a regional consolidated school so they can put a huge educational campus all in one place. It'll be far from any town because that's where the land is cheap. Everyone will have to choose between driving their kids to school or putting them on hour-long bus rides. And it'll abut a road where the 85th percentile speed is in excess of 50mph, which is not the smartest place for a hive of people who are immature and inadequately familiar with their own mortality. And some of them will probably be driving to it, too. Then 25 years from now, those kids will find the asterisk from the state where they find themselves liable for all the maintenance on the huge complex they couldn't afford in the first place when the ceiling is leaking and there are cracks growing in the gymnasium's walls. Hard to imagine why they don't have much affection for the programs provided by taxation. Admittedly, it's petty to take those grievances out on the local government, which probably provides the only public services they like. But when all you hear about is federal and state foolishness, and all you can affect is your own town, the misplaced anger isn't that surprising.

bllguo 9y ago
Thanks for the perspective. And because of things like this, rural folk don't want "our" help. They fall further behind, become more insular and hateful. Self-reinforcing cycle. Solving these problems is extremely important and will likely involve harsh tradeoffs. Unfortunately, in the US it feels like we need some dramatic examples before people will finally accept that tradeoffs are necessary.
- hermitdev 9y ago
  Let me preface by: I don't mean to offend, but I think your perception is fundamentally wrong. Rural folk don't want help from your "our" because their situation is different than yours. What works for major metropolitan areas doesn't work for small or rural schools. In an area where likely career paths involve working on or inheriting the family farm or ranch, more urban-centric curricula don't make sense. It's not that rural people in the US are more insular, it's that they need to be more independent. For instance, when the nearest ambulance may be an hour away, you learn to deal with emergency medical issues yourself, or you or your loved one die. When that ambulance cannot get to your house when the husband is having a heart attack, the wife somehow manages to get her husband into a vehicle to meet the ambulance somewhere the ambulance can reach. When the nearest sheriff is likewise an hour away when you call for help, if you even have 911, the sheriff is likely going to assume you have a shotgun, tell you to get it out, load it, and use it, if necessary. It's not that rural people in the US are insular or unaware of the rest of the US, it's that their situations are entirely different from what city dwellers encounter. Ambulances, police and fire response aren't just a few minutes away. It can be hours before emergency services arrive. And likewise, getting to even your local school that graduates at a HS level can take an hour or more. Getting to a college or university likely will take even longer. edit: grammar, spelling, minor bit of clarity.