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This is the identical CPU of a Raspberry Pi 3. 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain, and that Mali GPU is a proprietary piece of shit. What's the market for a So

This is the identical CPU of a Raspberry Pi 3. 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain, and that Mali GPU is a proprietary piece of shit. What's the market for a SoM for "makers and hardware startups" that has negligible upstream support. That's before you consider that they chose a SoC with considerable GPU/VPU capabilities that can only do HDMI or composite, the first you would never use in an embedded application where you have a fixed display, the latter you would never use, ever.

vardump 9y ago
> 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain That's an odd statement. How are those two things related? You can still run 32-bit binaries (including thumb-2) under 64-bit OS in 32-bit execution state -- as long as kernel is configured to use 4kB pages. So your usermode binaries don't need to be bigger. Or you can take advantage of higher performing 64-bit mode. (Unrelated, but my pet peeve, one thing a lot of people get wrong: 32-bit ARM (Aarch32 and most ARMv7) supports 1 TB of physical RAM and 64-bit IIRC 16 TB. Not sure where the idea 32-bit ARM could only support 4 GB comes from.)
gh02t 9y ago
It's not identical to the RPi 3. Raspberry Pi is using a Broadcom chip, this one is an Allwinner H5. They are similar, but at least the H5 has far better support in mainline Linux. Still Mali, though. Which I totally agree is crap. And no drivers for other display types.
- KSS42 9y ago
  Mali 450 just won't die. Atleast it is not the Mali 400.
- stefan_ 9y ago
  We were talking about the CPUs, and these are pretty identical. Both use quad ARM Cortex A53, the H5 has 100 MHz more top clock rate and is probably manufactured in a more modern process, but real-world performance isn't going to be much different.
  - gh02t 9y ago
    Performance wise they are very similar, but you mentioned upstream support. That is actually a major point of differentiation between the two.
    - stefan_ 9y ago
      Well, yes, the Raspberry Pi has much better upstream support. The biggest obvious issue being the Mali.
      - gh02t 9y ago
        I mean upstream support in the Linux kernel. The Allwinner chip is supported by the mainline kernel, the one in the Raspberry Pi is not. To me that's a big plus in its favor. Also in terms of support by the creators, if they're serious about the 10 year commitment then I'd say actually that is better than Raspberry Pi. Mindshare in the maker community isn't that important to someone doing serious embedded hardware development for production as long as the company behind it is solid. Which kinda sucks, I wish there was more incentive for chipmakers like Broadcom to be more open but...
        stefan_ 9y ago
        No offence, but I think you haven't been keeping up-to-date. The RPi is fully supported by the mainline kernel, most significantly, there is a full atomic DRM kernel driver for the VC4 GPU and corresponding Mesa userland, maintained by someone with transistor-level access to hardware documentation. I have great appreciation for the work Maxime Ripard et al. have been doing on mainline support for the various Allwinner chips, hence why I kicked in a few bucks for their kickstarter on reverse-engineering the Allwinner VPU: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bootlin/allwinner-vpu-support-in-the-official-linux-kernel https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bootlin/allwinner-vpu-s... But lets not kid ourselves, none of this was Allwinners doing and they could not give a fuck about mainline Linux.
        9y ago
- pritambaral 9y ago
  > but at least the H5 has far better support in mainline Linux Could you elaborate on this? My experience has been that the BCM2710 (and the RPi 3 board, in general) has had better (and earlier) support in mainline than the Allwinner H5. A client of mine is shipping a product based on the RPi3 after evaluating both (including building their own H5 based board), because support for H5 on mainline was poor and lagging compared to the RPi3.
bitwize 9y ago
> 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain Hence why all extant Raspberry Pi 3s have a full GiB of RAM.

vardump 9y ago

> 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain That's an odd statement. How are those two things related? You can still run 32-bit binaries (including thumb-2) under 64-bit OS in 32-bit execution state -- as long as kernel is configured to use 4kB pages. So your usermode binaries don't need to be bigger. Or you can take advantage of higher performing 64-bit mode. (Unrelated, but my pet peeve, one thing a lot of people get wrong: 32-bit ARM (Aarch32 and most ARMv7) supports 1 TB of physical RAM and 64-bit IIRC 16 TB. Not sure where the idea 32-bit ARM could only support 4 GB comes from.)

gh02t 9y ago

It's not identical to the RPi 3. Raspberry Pi is using a Broadcom chip, this one is an Allwinner H5. They are similar, but at least the H5 has far better support in mainline Linux. Still Mali, though. Which I totally agree is crap. And no drivers for other display types.

KSS42 9y ago
Mali 450 just won't die. Atleast it is not the Mali 400.
stefan_ 9y ago
We were talking about the CPUs, and these are pretty identical. Both use quad ARM Cortex A53, the H5 has 100 MHz more top clock rate and is probably manufactured in a more modern process, but real-world performance isn't going to be much different.
- gh02t 9y ago
  Performance wise they are very similar, but you mentioned upstream support. That is actually a major point of differentiation between the two.
  - stefan_ 9y ago
    Well, yes, the Raspberry Pi has much better upstream support. The biggest obvious issue being the Mali.
    - gh02t 9y ago
      I mean upstream support in the Linux kernel. The Allwinner chip is supported by the mainline kernel, the one in the Raspberry Pi is not. To me that's a big plus in its favor. Also in terms of support by the creators, if they're serious about the 10 year commitment then I'd say actually that is better than Raspberry Pi. Mindshare in the maker community isn't that important to someone doing serious embedded hardware development for production as long as the company behind it is solid. Which kinda sucks, I wish there was more incentive for chipmakers like Broadcom to be more open but...
      - stefan_ 9y ago
        No offence, but I think you haven't been keeping up-to-date. The RPi is fully supported by the mainline kernel, most significantly, there is a full atomic DRM kernel driver for the VC4 GPU and corresponding Mesa userland, maintained by someone with transistor-level access to hardware documentation. I have great appreciation for the work Maxime Ripard et al. have been doing on mainline support for the various Allwinner chips, hence why I kicked in a few bucks for their kickstarter on reverse-engineering the Allwinner VPU: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bootlin/allwinner-vpu-support-in-the-official-linux-kernel https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bootlin/allwinner-vpu-s... But lets not kid ourselves, none of this was Allwinners doing and they could not give a fuck about mainline Linux.
        9y ago
pritambaral 9y ago
> but at least the H5 has far better support in mainline Linux Could you elaborate on this? My experience has been that the BCM2710 (and the RPi 3 board, in general) has had better (and earlier) support in mainline than the Allwinner H5. A client of mine is shipping a product based on the RPi3 after evaluating both (including building their own H5 based board), because support for H5 on mainline was poor and lagging compared to the RPi3.

bitwize 9y ago

> 512 MB of RAM with 64 bit is a pain Hence why all extant Raspberry Pi 3s have a full GiB of RAM.