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they actually have a very tense, tenuous relationship with their citeznry and its propensity for public demonstrations that keep the government in line. there i

they actually have a very tense, tenuous relationship with their citeznry and its propensity for public demonstrations that keep the government in line. there is a breaking point they know they have to avoid. > The number of annual protests has grown steadily since the early 1990s, from approximately 8700 “mass group incidents” in 1993[1] to over 87,000 in 2005.[2] In 2006, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences estimated the number of annual mass incidents to exceed 90,000, and Chinese sociology professor Sun Liping estimated 180,000 incidents in 2010.[3][4] Mass incidents are defined broadly as "planned or impromptu gathering that forms because of internal contradictions", and can include public speeches or demonstrations, physical clashes, public airings of grievances, and other group behaviors that are seen as disrupting social stability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_China

smallnamespace 9y ago
At least a few years ago, de Toqueville's 'On the Old Regime and the Revolution' was on the Communist Party's reading list [1]. The Chinese Civil War of '49 and then the Cultural Revolution (where most of the then-current Party leadership suffered) is still within living memory of the ruling class. Of course they understand that there is an implicit contract between themselves and the rest of society, even if it the terms of the deal are not arrived at in a democratic fashion. The question is not whether China will eventually devolve more political power to the populace——that is almost a given, considering the growing economic and cultural power of the middle class; it's whether this will happen suddenly and violently via another revolution, or gradually by the Party bringing dissenting voices into the fold widening the circle of acceptable, public political discourse. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/china/2013/01/15/chinese-society-through-the-prism-of-past-revolutions/#4d584b13234a https://www.forbes.com/sites/china/2013/01/15/chinese-societ...
- elefanten 9y ago
  Let's truly genuinely hope this perspective is correct. This argument, or something like it, have been conventional wisdom to some for decades. And it would be so good -- for the people of China more than for anyone else. But it would be good for us all. Yet, it's difficult to watch Xi's tenure unfold and not have worrisome questions about the inevitability of this result, especially given new technologies available to potentially aspiring totalitarians.
- kashprime 9y ago
  > The question is not whether China will eventually devolve more political power to the populace——that is almost a given This idea was popular in 2013 when this article was written, but Xi's regime has indeed shown that greater prosperity can be had with increased repression. Turmoil in America only underlines this.
  - ghostcluster 9y ago
    > greater prosperity can be had with increased repressio for now, anyway. plenty of looming societal issues remain uncertain until we see how they unfold: their aging population, lack of social safety net, mounting domestic unrest, increasing lack of labor cost competitiveness, etc.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - smallnamespace 9y ago
    The idea that lack of direct political participation must entail repression is very much a modern Western mindset. As a Chinese-American, I see both sides of this issue, but China's own long political development sees the role of the state explicitly as a paternal protector. The state represents and protects the people's interests, without their explicit participation. This is obviously alien to a modern Western mindset that sees political legitimacy as only deriving from elections, but that means that even early modern states (e.g. 19th century Britain or the US) is politically illegitimate since the franchise was restricted to a very small slice of property owners.
    - pertymcpert 9y ago
      To frame democracy as a "Western mindset" is naive, democracy is a global value devoid of geographical distinctions. This kind of thinking is also used as a defensive tool against real debate about the morality of what China does. What Britain or the US did in the 18th or 19th century is not relevant to the discussion, what matters is today. It is not a Western mindset to think that lack of participation in the political process leads to repression. Lack of participation, or the inability to participate, is in itself a form of repression.

smallnamespace 9y ago

At least a few years ago, de Toqueville's 'On the Old Regime and the Revolution' was on the Communist Party's reading list [1]. The Chinese Civil War of '49 and then the Cultural Revolution (where most of the then-current Party leadership suffered) is still within living memory of the ruling class. Of course they understand that there is an implicit contract between themselves and the rest of society, even if it the terms of the deal are not arrived at in a democratic fashion. The question is not whether China will eventually devolve more political power to the populace——that is almost a given, considering the growing economic and cultural power of the middle class; it's whether this will happen suddenly and violently via another revolution, or gradually by the Party bringing dissenting voices into the fold widening the circle of acceptable, public political discourse. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/china/2013/01/15/chinese-society-through-the-prism-of-past-revolutions/#4d584b13234a https://www.forbes.com/sites/china/2013/01/15/chinese-societ...

elefanten 9y ago
Let's truly genuinely hope this perspective is correct. This argument, or something like it, have been conventional wisdom to some for decades. And it would be so good -- for the people of China more than for anyone else. But it would be good for us all. Yet, it's difficult to watch Xi's tenure unfold and not have worrisome questions about the inevitability of this result, especially given new technologies available to potentially aspiring totalitarians.
kashprime 9y ago
> The question is not whether China will eventually devolve more political power to the populace——that is almost a given This idea was popular in 2013 when this article was written, but Xi's regime has indeed shown that greater prosperity can be had with increased repression. Turmoil in America only underlines this.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  > greater prosperity can be had with increased repressio for now, anyway. plenty of looming societal issues remain uncertain until we see how they unfold: their aging population, lack of social safety net, mounting domestic unrest, increasing lack of labor cost competitiveness, etc.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- smallnamespace 9y ago
  The idea that lack of direct political participation must entail repression is very much a modern Western mindset. As a Chinese-American, I see both sides of this issue, but China's own long political development sees the role of the state explicitly as a paternal protector. The state represents and protects the people's interests, without their explicit participation. This is obviously alien to a modern Western mindset that sees political legitimacy as only deriving from elections, but that means that even early modern states (e.g. 19th century Britain or the US) is politically illegitimate since the franchise was restricted to a very small slice of property owners.
  - pertymcpert 9y ago
    To frame democracy as a "Western mindset" is naive, democracy is a global value devoid of geographical distinctions. This kind of thinking is also used as a defensive tool against real debate about the morality of what China does. What Britain or the US did in the 18th or 19th century is not relevant to the discussion, what matters is today. It is not a Western mindset to think that lack of participation in the political process leads to repression. Lack of participation, or the inability to participate, is in itself a form of repression.